Devs on Tape x KSCOPE25 - From Fashion to Tech: Monica Lis Journey of Creativity and Connection

00:00:00: Monica Li: This episode is powered by Hyatt, your

00:00:02: Monica Li: smart companion for digital business

00:00:04: Monica Li: solutions, and Biodetec's gracious

00:00:06: Monica Li: invitations and support.

00:00:07: Monica Li: Thank you for having me at the conference

00:00:09: Monica Li: and fueling this journey.

00:00:10: Monica Li: Let's go.

00:00:24: Monica Li: Hello and welcome to another episode of

00:00:26: Monica Li: Deaths on Tape Today, again at Kscope from

00:00:30: Monica Li: ODTAC in Texas, in Grapevine to be precise.

00:00:33: Monica Li: Today, my first female guest in this

00:00:35: Monica Li: podcast, this conference, monica Lee Hi

00:00:38: Monica Li: Monica.

00:00:38: Kai: Hi, how are you doing?

00:00:39: Kai: Good to see you Doing great.

00:00:41: Kai: Ready for what day three?

00:00:43: Monica Li: Day three Day three.

00:00:45: Monica Li: Yeah, With a supposing right yeah.

00:00:48: Monica Li: So, Monika, for everyone who does not know

00:00:51: Monica Li: you, please introduce yourself to our

00:00:52: Monica Li: listeners.

00:00:53: Kai: Sure.

00:00:53: Kai: Well, like you said, my name is Monika Lee.

00:00:55: Kai: I work for one of the vendors here,

00:00:57: Kai: viscosity, as their director of operations

00:01:00: Kai: and also director of marketing.

00:01:02: Kai: So it's always funny when I come to these

00:01:04: Kai: events.

00:01:09: Kai: Everyone just expects I'm the marketing

00:01:12: Kai: sales girl, but really I'm helping run the

00:01:13: Kai: company.

00:01:15: Monica Li: They let me do this because I love it.

00:01:16: Monica Li: That sounds great.

00:01:16: Monica Li: Exactly what I thought when we first met,

00:01:17: Monica Li: like a couple of Kscopes ago, and you're

00:01:19: Monica Li: deeply into tech too right, defined deeply.

00:01:22: Monica Li: You know what the guys around you are

00:01:24: Monica Li: talking about, for the most part yes, so

00:01:27: Monica Li: two positions to I would say high positions

00:01:30: Monica Li: at a company like Viscosity might be so

00:01:32: Monica Li: much work right.

00:01:33: Kai: Oh yeah, I mean, there's not a department I

00:01:36: Kai: don't touch at Viscosity.

00:01:38: Monica Li: How do you do that?

00:01:39: Monica Li: How can you press that in like 40 hours a

00:01:41: Monica Li: week?

00:01:42: Kai: A lot of help and great teams.

00:01:45: Kai: That's how that works.

00:01:47: Monica Li: That sounds nice.

00:01:48: Monica Li: So let me just go a little bit back in your

00:01:50: Monica Li: history.

00:01:51: Monica Li: So we would like to know more about your

00:01:53: Monica Li: career.

00:01:53: Monica Li: So you didn't start like in this position

00:01:55: Monica Li: here at Viscosity right, no.

00:01:58: Kai: If you told me I was going to go into tech

00:02:00: Kai: or the tech world, I would have laughed,

00:02:02: Kai: truly laughed, although I think most of my

00:02:04: Kai: family always assumed I would be some kind

00:02:06: Kai: of engineer of sorts, because my brain

00:02:08: Kai: definitely works like that, okay.

00:02:10: Kai: But I've also just been a creative forever.

00:02:12: Kai: I've always been a science lover.

00:02:14: Kai: So I truly thought you know as coming out

00:02:17: Kai: of high school that I was going to become a

00:02:20: Kai: physical therapist or go med school route.

00:02:22: Kai: Then I ended up three years into my

00:02:26: Kai: university changing over to fashion design.

00:02:29: Monica Li: Okay, just just say oh, I love fashion, I'm

00:02:32: Monica Li: going out, yeah, you know, I just I don't

00:02:35: Monica Li: know.

00:02:35: Kai: something wasn't clicking and I'm sure you

00:02:37: Kai: could imagine my parents were like what

00:02:39: Kai: you're going to do, what?

00:02:41: Monica Li: you told them afterwards or during the

00:02:43: Monica Li: during the?

00:02:43: Kai: during the session, during the transition,

00:02:45: Kai: I was kind of I was just unhappy with the

00:02:47: Kai: track I was on, like I still love.

00:02:50: Kai: I still love science.

00:02:51: Kai: I have danced all my life, so I've always

00:02:53: Kai: loved human anatomy and all those things.

00:02:56: Kai: But yeah, something just wasn't clicking

00:02:57: Kai: quite right and I started kind of

00:02:59: Kai: revisiting a bunch of different career

00:03:02: Kai: paths, or at least learning paths, and

00:03:04: Kai: somehow this came up.

00:03:05: Kai: I would never say I was a fashionista, but

00:03:07: Kai: I love creation, I love design, I love all

00:03:10: Kai: those things.

00:03:11: Kai: So I went into what was called textiles and

00:03:13: Kai: apparel fashion design and it's actually

00:03:16: Kai: fairly science heavy at the university I

00:03:18: Kai: went to as well.

00:03:19: Kai: So it was very enjoyable for me.

00:03:21: Monica Li: So going to a creative job.

00:03:23: Monica Li: So it was basically really a switch right

00:03:25: Monica Li: so you get completely in the creative

00:03:27: Monica Li: lifestyle I would call it right.

00:03:29: Monica Li: So you were like I just imagine you were

00:03:32: Monica Li: like writing, like painting scratches or

00:03:34: Monica Li: sketches of new fashion pieces, right, and

00:03:37: Monica Li: you're not behind in the economics of the

00:03:41: Monica Li: fashion design.

00:03:42: Monica Li: You're really just moved into a creative

00:03:44: Monica Li: path, right.

00:03:45: Kai: Yep, absolutely, which it's actually

00:03:47: Kai: interesting now, like being in this world

00:03:50: Kai: that I'm in it's.

00:03:56: Kai: You know we're a consulting company and

00:03:57: Kai: part of that learning experience in fashion

00:03:58: Kai: design was not just designing stuff for

00:03:59: Kai: yourself.

00:03:59: Kai: It was the first time you know as a young

00:04:00: Kai: person that I had to realize, oh, you're

00:04:02: Kai: not designing for just yourself.

00:04:04: Kai: You have to really think about what people

00:04:05: Kai: want.

00:04:06: Kai: What people need, what will actually look

00:04:08: Kai: good on so many different types of people,

00:04:10: Kai: body types, taste, things like that, right.

00:04:12: Kai: So I think it was the first time I realized

00:04:14: Kai: like, oh, there's a lot of jobs where

00:04:16: Kai: you're not really doing exactly what you

00:04:18: Kai: want, what you like, all the time, but you

00:04:20: Kai: are for others and you know, opening your

00:04:22: Kai: perspective to helping other people in that

00:04:24: Kai: way was really interesting.

00:04:26: Kai: But I loved that.

00:04:27: Monica Li: I absolutely loved that aspect you just

00:04:29: Monica Li: jump started working in this business or

00:04:31: Monica Li: did you do kind of an apprenticeship or

00:04:33: Monica Li: something?

00:04:34: Kai: so I did.

00:04:35: Kai: I interned in New York City, worked New

00:04:36: Kai: York Fashion Week, an amazing, amazing

00:04:39: Kai: design firm called Proenza Schooler, which

00:04:42: Kai: I still and I had my whole Manhattan

00:04:45: Kai: experience and then got a job after that.

00:04:49: Monica Li: So we might talk about the community stuff

00:04:52: Monica Li: you're doing in this area, I think, because

00:04:54: Monica Li: NYUG is something we want to talk about

00:04:57: Monica Li: later.

00:04:58: Monica Li: So being in the fashion environment.

00:05:00: Monica Li: So you said already that your brain is

00:05:02: Monica Li: working like not differently, but you you

00:05:05: Monica Li: do all the things together right.

00:05:06: Monica Li: So now you're doing like consultancy stuff,

00:05:08: Monica Li: operation stuff and also the marketing

00:05:10: Monica Li: stuff so how does that fit into just doing,

00:05:14: Monica Li: just doing fashion designs and so on?

00:05:16: Monica Li: Oh gosh, did you run the company right

00:05:18: Monica Li: after that right?

00:05:19: Kai: no with fashion.

00:05:21: Kai: Yeah, no, no, I was a lowly foot soldier

00:05:26: Kai: for a long time.

00:05:27: Kai: I ended up designing children's and women's

00:05:29: Kai: wear.

00:05:29: Kai: Okay, and it actually yes to your point

00:05:32: Kai: transitioned very well because I did a lot

00:05:34: Kai: of things for this company, such as like

00:05:36: Kai: artistic direction for photo shoots.

00:05:39: Kai: I was called the baby wrangler because we

00:05:41: Kai: would do like little, little little kids

00:05:43: Kai: and you know, trying to get them photo

00:05:45: Kai: shoot ready is so difficult.

00:05:47: Kai: But, as you can tell, I'm a very animated

00:05:48: Kai: person.

00:05:49: Kai: So I got kids, I got it.

00:05:51: Kai: It's not too different than chasing my, my

00:05:53: Kai: colleagues around these conferences

00:05:55: Kai: wrangling them up for our listeners.

00:05:57: Monica Li: there's so much energy right now in this

00:05:59: Monica Li: room.

00:06:00: Monica Li: I had to set up the equipment very fast

00:06:02: Monica Li: today because there was kind of a delay,

00:06:04: Monica Li: but the moment you entered the room there

00:06:06: Monica Li: was so much energy again, so I'm able to

00:06:08: Monica Li: record it on time.

00:06:10: Kai: You pivoted super fast.

00:06:11: Kai: You were great.

00:06:12: Kai: Thank you, but yeah, wrangling babies to

00:06:15: Kai: get the photo shoot, I totally get that

00:06:18: Kai: yeah being ready for anything, man like you,

00:06:20: Kai: getting this room set up, me having to

00:06:22: Kai: pivot and all these different departments

00:06:25: Kai: of either viscosity or the design world

00:06:28: Kai: it's really one of the best life skills you

00:06:30: Kai: could have.

00:06:31: Monica Li: So, and then, at some point, you switched

00:06:34: Monica Li: back from being.

00:06:35: Monica Li: You didn't stop being creative, right, but

00:06:37: Monica Li: you switched back going to more than like

00:06:40: Monica Li: the engineering economy, right?

00:06:43: Monica Li: So how does this again the switch, happen?

00:06:46: Kai: Sure, let's see.

00:06:47: Kai: When I finished design work or, I guess,

00:06:50: Kai: was looking for a next opportunity, it was

00:06:52: Kai: 2011 or 2012.

00:06:55: Kai: And it was basically like kind of the end

00:06:57: Kai: of that recession we had here in the state.

00:06:59: Kai: So a lot of retail was just they were

00:07:02: Kai: trying to stick it out, they were trying to

00:07:04: Kai: survive through that time.

00:07:05: Kai: And it was just a lot of people were just

00:07:05: Kai: they were trying to stick it out, they were

00:07:05: Kai: trying to survive through that time, and it

00:07:06: Kai: was just a lot of people were closing.

00:07:08: Kai: There was there were.

00:07:09: Kai: There was not as much money in that

00:07:11: Kai: industry, for sure.

00:07:12: Kai: So I started looking around at different

00:07:13: Kai: things and I actually launched my own

00:07:15: Kai: boutique.

00:07:16: Monica Li: OK, yeah.

00:07:17: Kai: In the meantime I sucked it up, moved back

00:07:19: Kai: home, went out and was a buyer, created my

00:07:23: Kai: own website, figured out my own like

00:07:25: Kai: shopping platforms, like just started

00:07:28: Kai: figuring all this stuff up.

00:07:29: Kai: Still got to do graphic design work and you

00:07:31: Kai: know whatever I wanted, did my own photo

00:07:33: Kai: shoots, did my own styling.

00:07:35: Kai: It was great.

00:07:36: Monica Li: You used to do that already, right so.

00:07:38: Kai: Honestly.

00:07:39: Kai: Yeah, I try to do that with my team too.

00:07:42: Monica Li: I mean being on so many different levels,

00:07:45: Monica Li: like you do your own job.

00:07:46: Monica Li: This fits totally to what you told me,

00:07:48: Monica Li: because you're doing like everything from

00:07:50: Monica Li: buying website creation, also marketing

00:07:53: Monica Li: photo shoots.

00:07:53: Monica Li: That sounds pretty nice.

00:07:54: Monica Li: And then you found like Viscosity right

00:07:56: Monica Li: after that, like founding a boutique.

00:07:58: Monica Li: Yeah.

00:07:59: Kai: So only I think.

00:08:00: Kai: A year after launching no, actually I take

00:08:02: Kai: that back Pretty much.

00:08:04: Kai: A week after I launched my website went

00:08:07: Kai: live for sales, I got a call from somebody

00:08:10: Kai: at Viscosity who knew me saying they needed

00:08:12: Kai: a lot of help.

00:08:13: Kai: And was I looking for any work?

00:08:15: Monica Li: Okay.

00:08:16: Kai: And I mean at that point I was kind of like,

00:08:18: Kai: hey, I might as well keep learning about a

00:08:19: Kai: business while running mine, but like using

00:08:22: Kai: someone else's time and money and efforts

00:08:24: Kai: efforts why?

00:08:25: Kai: Not, why not?

00:08:25: Kai: So I said, of course and I started working

00:08:27: Kai: just part-time for them and then still

00:08:29: Kai: working my boutique I would set up like

00:08:32: Kai: little pop-up shops at like music festivals

00:08:34: Kai: and bars, and you know.

00:08:36: Kai: So I always had fun with that.

00:08:37: Monica Li: So I told the bar scene.

00:08:41: Kai: You know I'm always on the bar scene with

00:08:56: Kai: viscosity and previous jobs.

00:08:57: Kai: So viscosity basically needed a lot of help

00:08:59: Kai: on the back end of just running the

00:09:02: Kai: business, so operations.

00:09:03: Kai: And I told them sure, I'll work, this is

00:09:05: Kai: just a little part time thing while I try

00:09:07: Kai: to pursue my own entrepreneurial fashion

00:09:10: Kai: stuff.

00:09:11: Kai: So yeah it just.

00:09:12: Kai: It went on for almost gosh four years.

00:09:15: Kai: I did both my boutique and viscosity but I

00:09:17: Kai: just grew more and more.

00:09:19: Kai: I grew so fast at viscosity just taking on

00:09:21: Kai: more stuff at Viscosity, just taking on

00:09:22: Kai: more stuff.

00:09:23: Kai: Viscosity was only a year old at that time,

00:09:27: Kai: so it was pretty much a consulting firm run

00:09:28: Kai: by the like billable consultants and yeah,

00:09:31: Kai: so they were running out of time to like

00:09:32: Kai: actually bill the clients and actually they

00:09:34: Kai: had no social media.

00:09:36: Kai: No one was really managing a website, they

00:09:38: Kai: just were, you know, bringing in their

00:09:40: Kai: clients by word of mouth and they were

00:09:42: Kai: thinking from yeah, they were like, okay,

00:09:47: Kai: we're doing all this work, but we need to

00:09:48: Kai: invoice them too and we need to do all

00:09:49: Kai: these other things.

00:09:50: Kai: So that's how I started there, and so I got

00:09:50: Kai: to learn so much about the back end of a

00:09:52: Kai: business.

00:09:52: Monica Li: So how much?

00:09:53: Monica Li: So you are contributing to the community

00:09:55: Monica Li: very much, right?

00:09:56: Monica Li: So you have so much community engagement

00:09:58: Monica Li: and you worked hard on conferences.

00:10:00: Monica Li: I always see you, so did you already have

00:10:02: Monica Li: to talk about technical stuff?

00:10:04: Monica Li: No, no, it's just everything around, right?

00:10:07: Kai: Yes, yes.

00:10:08: Kai: So I started learning, started learning on

00:10:10: Kai: the job.

00:10:11: Kai: I did not know what Oracle was.

00:10:13: Kai: I did not know what a database was.

00:10:15: Kai: I knew what apps were.

00:10:16: Kai: Yeah, sure, of course, as a user, sure, but

00:10:19: Kai: yeah, I had no idea what kind of industry I

00:10:21: Kai: was stepping into and no idea what kind of

00:10:26: Kai: industry I was stepping into and I remember

00:10:27: Kai: my bosses brought me to Oracle OpenWorld.

00:10:28: Kai: That was my first my first conference.

00:10:29: Kai: And it was amazing, absolutely amazing.

00:10:32: Kai: And, yeah, I learned so much from there.

00:10:34: Kai: I started getting involved more with the

00:10:36: Kai: marketing and sales side of the job, which

00:10:39: Kai: had me working with a lot of Oracle PMs and

00:10:41: Kai: also a lot of Oracle sales folks.

00:10:42: Kai: So, yeah, I obviously, like the people who

00:10:46: Kai: hired me, really brought me to speed with

00:10:50: Kai: what we were doing for people and, you know,

00:10:53: Kai: I at least have that enough of an

00:10:55: Kai: understanding of how things work.

00:10:57: Monica Li: It's enough right?

00:10:58: Kai: Yes, so it was fairly easy for me to grasp

00:11:02: Kai: at least the basis and go from there.

00:11:03: Kai: And that was already like 12 years ago.

00:11:05: Kai: Like 12 years ago, I feel so old yeah.

00:11:08: Monica Li: So I already mentioned your community

00:11:10: Monica Li: engagement.

00:11:11: Monica Li: So it is definitely part of your job to be

00:11:14: Monica Li: like in the communities and be connected to

00:11:16: Monica Li: them.

00:11:17: Monica Li: But how does this work?

00:11:18: Monica Li: Like doing the marketing part and the

00:11:20: Monica Li: operations at a company and be also like so

00:11:23: Monica Li: active in the community without everyone

00:11:25: Monica Li: telling constantly who you work for, right?

00:11:28: Monica Li: So we all know the different sides, right.

00:11:30: Monica Li: So organizing stuff and saying I'm from

00:11:32: Monica Li: Viscosity but I'm now here.

00:11:34: Monica Li: For is it Oditak, or is it just like a Lone

00:11:37: Monica Li: Ranger walking around communities?

00:11:39: Kai: Yeah.

00:11:40: Kai: So honestly, with everything I just spoke

00:11:44: Kai: about, being able to meet so many people at

00:11:47: Kai: these conferences, I mean, if anything has

00:11:50: Kai: been more consistent than this, I don't

00:11:52: Kai: know what it is, but I've just always loved

00:11:54: Kai: people.

00:11:54: Kai: I love people, I love getting to know them,

00:11:57: Kai: even if I have no idea what they're talking

00:11:58: Kai: about.

00:11:59: Kai: I just love listening and I love asking

00:12:00: Kai: questions.

00:12:01: Kai: So it's been very natural for me to fall

00:12:03: Kai: into the communities here at these

00:12:05: Kai: conferences and all these user groups

00:12:07: Kai: around the world.

00:12:09: Kai: I love it, and it's there are people that

00:12:11: Kai: organize and volunteer for these things

00:12:13: Kai: that I very proudly call my friends now and

00:12:17: Kai: getting to see, I guess the unique position

00:12:20: Kai: I hold is I get to talk to clients, I get

00:12:23: Kai: to talk to prospective clients, I get to

00:12:24: Kai: talk to the people.

00:12:25: Kai: I get to talk to prospective clients, I get

00:12:25: Kai: to talk to the people who are selling and

00:12:27: Kai: creating these products, and then I get to

00:12:29: Kai: talk to the people who are trying to spread

00:12:31: Kai: that word and that knowledge, and so it's

00:12:34: Kai: really nice to just see it.

00:12:35: Kai: You know, almost like ground up, what all

00:12:37: Kai: these things are doing and you know even if

00:12:40: Kai: I personally don't have to partake in, I

00:12:43: Kai: guess, the technical piece.

00:12:45: Kai: I love seeing what it really does and the

00:12:48: Kai: value that it really holds and seeing all

00:12:50: Kai: these people who that are so passionate

00:12:53: Kai: about what they're talking about.

00:12:54: Kai: And what they're doing is gosh in any field

00:12:56: Kai: always so exciting.

00:12:57: Kai: So I love connecting people.

00:13:00: Kai: I do it in my personal life with my alumni

00:13:02: Kai: group from my university.

00:13:04: Kai: I do it with the dance community I'm part

00:13:06: Kai: of there's still time to do that.

00:13:10: Kai: Anywhere I go, anywhere, anyone I talk to,

00:13:14: Kai: I'm always thinking in my head like, oh,

00:13:16: Kai: you would love this person.

00:13:17: Kai: I need to introduce you to this person.

00:13:18: Monica Li: Connect everyone.

00:13:19: Kai: Yes, I love it.

00:13:21: Kai: So, yes, this was a very natural fit for me

00:13:23: Kai: here.

00:13:23: Kai: So I'm very happy to be involved in these

00:13:26: Kai: communities and I'm very lucky that they

00:13:29: Kai: let me do it.

00:13:32: Monica Li: So we're talking, like multiple times,

00:13:33: Monica Li: about your dancing experience.

00:13:35: Monica Li: So, tell me about that.

00:13:37: Monica Li: I don't even ask how you fit that in your

00:13:39: Monica Li: day, but you told me beforehand also that

00:13:42: Monica Li: you are very into dancing and you already

00:13:45: Monica Li: said that you're doing like paid dancing.

00:13:47: Monica Li: Yes, not using the wrong words.

00:13:50: Kai: We have to be very careful about how we

00:13:54: Kai: refer to this.

00:13:55: Monica Li: So start at the beginning and tell our

00:13:57: Monica Li: listeners what like pay ten is here.

00:14:00: Kai: Gigs.

00:14:01: Monica Li: We'll call them gigs.

00:14:05: Kai: I'm sense money, it's not dollar bills.

00:14:09: Monica Li: To make that clear.

00:14:10: Monica Li: Yes, bear in mind that I'm not native

00:14:12: Monica Li: English speaker.

00:14:13: Monica Li: Yes, we don't have to cut that out, it's

00:14:18: Monica Li: good.

00:14:19: Kai: It's good, it's fun.

00:14:20: Kai: So since I was young well, not too young

00:14:23: Kai: maybe like high school I started dancing a

00:14:25: Kai: lot more and into my college career I would

00:14:28: Kai: take, like jazz, hip hop, those kind of

00:14:30: Kai: classes.

00:14:31: Kai: La street jazz is a big thing back then.

00:14:33: Kai: Now it's called jazz funk.

00:14:36: Kai: The whole world keeps changing, but it's

00:14:42: Kai: something I've always loved.

00:14:43: Kai: I'm sure you can tell by my personality I

00:14:45: Kai: love performance, I have a lot of energy

00:14:46: Kai: just in my face alone.

00:14:47: Kai: So mix that with the love of music and it's

00:14:50: Kai: such a deep passion in my life and so I'm

00:14:53: Kai: very happy to be 30, almost 38 years old

00:14:57: Kai: and still doing it, dancing with 20

00:14:58: Kai: something year olds and getting paid to do

00:15:01: Kai: it.

00:15:02: Kai: Yeah, so that was really great.

00:15:03: Kai: So I guess in the last couple of years I

00:15:05: Kai: found kind of a new dance community I love.

00:15:08: Kai: They're called Pop Stars, which is very my

00:15:10: Kai: era of like the Britney Spears kind of

00:15:13: Kai: style.

00:15:13: Kai: Like it's very new millennial turn of the

00:15:17: Kai: century.

00:15:18: Kai: Yes, it's that style of dance.

00:15:20: Kai: I never know how to best explain it.

00:15:23: Kai: For a lot of people they may relate it to

00:15:24: Kai: like halftime cheerleaders or whatever.

00:15:28: Kai: They're all dancers now.

00:15:29: Kai: They're not really cheerleaders, but yeah,

00:15:31: Kai: it's that kind of style.

00:15:32: Kai: So it's very sassy, energetic poppy, but

00:15:36: Kai: that's oh, I love that.

00:15:38: Monica Li: Sounds like the best contrast to working

00:15:41: Monica Li: like a kind of an office job.

00:15:42: Kai: right, yeah, I go straight from the office

00:15:45: Kai: to dance class, like two to three times a

00:15:47: Kai: week.

00:15:48: Kai: Wow, it is the best decompressor for

00:15:52: Kai: getting all of that workday stress out of

00:15:55: Kai: your system, at least for a couple hours.

00:15:58: Monica Li: I mean, I already said to our listeners

00:16:00: Monica Li: that there's so much energy in this room

00:16:02: Monica Li: right here.

00:16:03: Monica Li: I asked myself how do you get this energy?

00:16:06: Monica Li: Because at least I can tell that I see you

00:16:08: Monica Li: at each and every Kscope here and I know

00:16:10: Monica Li: that you're traveling around and go to

00:16:12: Monica Li: other conferences.

00:16:13: Monica Li: How many conferences do you attend and how

00:16:15: Monica Li: do you make this work gosh?

00:16:17: Kai: before, before 2020, we were probably doing

00:16:22: Kai: one a month, maybe sometimes two.

00:16:25: Kai: Maybe skip it, but it my.

00:16:27: Kai: My suitcase was never fully unpacked okay,

00:16:30: Kai: never fully unpacked.

00:16:31: Kai: This year it's probably been like four or

00:16:33: Kai: five, maybe some smaller ones, mixed in

00:16:36: Kai: there, basically in the States, right?

00:16:38: Monica Li: Yes, so we are here in Texas and it's not

00:16:40: Monica Li: that far away from where you guys are

00:16:43: Monica Li: located right.

00:16:44: Kai: Yeah, oh yes, Just around the corner.

00:16:46: Kai: Yep, Right now we're about 30 minutes from

00:16:48: Kai: my office.

00:16:49: Monica Li: Okay, so don't drive home after KSCO every

00:16:52: Monica Li: evening right, yes, I do.

00:16:57: Monica Li: That's not that far away, so the

00:16:58: Monica Li: conferences are all in the states and I I I

00:16:59: Monica Li: think you don't have to fly more than five

00:17:01: Monica Li: hours oh no, that's the beauty of dallas

00:17:04: Monica Li: yeah um, it's a big airport and it takes me

00:17:06: Monica Li: like three and a half hours to new york

00:17:08: Monica Li: city and three and a half hours to san

00:17:09: Monica Li: francisco.

00:17:11: Monica Li: So talking about new york city.

00:17:13: Monica Li: So you, for for myself, I I watch on my

00:17:15: Monica Li: inbox and you you notice me that you asked

00:17:18: Monica Li: multiple times to speak at your group there.

00:17:22: Monica Li: What are the reasons you are having a user

00:17:24: Monica Li: group in New York and being located like in

00:17:27: Monica Li: the next to Dallas?

00:17:29: Kai: So this is actually an interesting story.

00:17:31: Kai: When the pandemic hit and all of these user

00:17:34: Kai: groups around the country you know started

00:17:36: Kai: having to pivot and try to figure out what

00:17:38: Kai: to do without being in person.

00:17:40: Kai: The New York Oracle user group has existed

00:17:42: Kai: for many, many years and they were the only

00:17:45: Kai: user group who responded to me to like

00:17:47: Kai: partner up and just like be super webinar

00:17:50: Kai: heavy.

00:17:51: Kai: Everyone else was kind of like oh no, we

00:17:53: Kai: don't really know what we want to do yet

00:17:57: Kai: and New York Oracle user group was like

00:17:58: Kai: yeah, let's do it.

00:17:58: Kai: And so since March 2020, gosh, we have.

00:18:01: Kai: We've done one to two webinars a month,

00:18:04: Kai: sometimes more, sometimes less, but very

00:18:06: Kai: consistent, and we get some amazing

00:18:08: Kai: speakers.

00:18:09: Kai: And now the New York Oracle user group like

00:18:12: Kai: followers are just worldwide, because the

00:18:14: Kai: last five years we've just been pumping out

00:18:16: Kai: great content from international speakers

00:18:19: Kai: all around oracle so how many people are

00:18:22: Kai: attending those webinars?

00:18:23: Kai: Probably our largest ones are between three

00:18:26: Kai: and four hundred, maybe like 375, I think

00:18:29: Kai: was our biggest one.

00:18:30: Kai: Okay, so yeah they're.

00:18:32: Kai: I don't know if that's big or small,

00:18:33: Kai: honestly.

00:18:35: Monica Li: I think it's pretty nice to have that kind

00:18:37: Monica Li: of big audience like each and every session,

00:18:41: Monica Li: Not each and every right but there are some

00:18:44: Monica Li: of them very, very heavy.

00:18:45: Monica Li: Yes.

00:18:46: Kai: And all of our followers know they can like

00:18:48: Kai: rewatch videos so I'm sure a lot of them

00:18:50: Kai: are like I'll just register so I don't

00:18:52: Kai: forget about it.

00:18:52: Kai: But yeah, we do get some great turnout and

00:18:57: Kai: it's been interesting creating more

00:18:58: Kai: connections with people, just virtually

00:18:59: Kai: over that those five years you don't have

00:19:02: Kai: to travel that much, right?

00:19:03: Monica Li: that was my following question, if you're

00:19:05: Monica Li: going to new york each and every time when

00:19:07: Monica Li: something happens there.

00:19:08: Kai: So no, because it's all been virtual.

00:19:10: Kai: So we actually just did our first in-person

00:19:12: Kai: event in january in new york, so a very

00:19:16: Kai: cold time to be in.

00:19:17: Kai: New York City for a Texas girl but it was

00:19:20: Kai: very fun, yeah.

00:19:21: Kai: So yeah, it's just been a partnership

00:19:23: Kai: Viscosity and NYOEG Just continuing that

00:19:27: Kai: awareness and keeping people connected, and

00:19:30: Kai: we love it.

00:19:31: Kai: And, yeah, they're great.

00:19:33: Kai: Coleman at NYOEG is awesome.

00:19:35: Kai: So I know I have a task here with all these

00:19:37: Kai: awesome speakers to fill up our list.

00:19:40: Kai: So, kai, you're next.

00:19:42: Monica Li: Just in person talks right, so I'm not in

00:19:44: Monica Li: the remote so maybe not in January.

00:19:48: Kai: So we need to get a sponsor for you to fly

00:19:50: Kai: out there.

00:19:51: Monica Li: We see.

00:19:51: Monica Li: So put a podcast booth in there, and I do

00:19:54: Monica Li: both, and then we can combine that.

00:19:56: Kai: Yeah, actually I do one in Chicago as well.

00:19:59: Kai: Yes, I actually run an annual conference

00:20:02: Kai: there, and sometimes it's at Willis Tower

00:20:04: Kai: in the Oracle office, and it's beautiful,

00:20:07: Kai: okay, so we're going to have to get you out

00:20:08: Kai: there.

00:20:09: Monica Li: Let's talk about that after the episode.

00:20:11: Monica Li: Maybe we can get.

00:20:12: Monica Li: Carol too in.

00:20:13: Monica Li: It Sounds great.

00:20:15: Monica Li: At this point I have to greet Caro.

00:20:17: Monica Li: She can't be here.

00:20:18: Monica Li: She's waiting like almost now her first

00:20:21: Monica Li: baby.

00:20:22: Kai: Oh, my goodness, and yeah big greets out to

00:20:25: Kai: Caro.

00:20:26: Kai: You got this girl.

00:20:28: Monica Li: And if anyone could say it, it's you right.

00:20:31: Monica Li: So there's so much energy, I don't know

00:20:33: Monica Li: what to tell.

00:20:34: Monica Li: All right, so community work besides NYOUG.

00:20:39: Monica Li: So at conferences, what are you doing here?

00:20:42: Monica Li: What's your work?

00:20:43: Monica Li: So you obviously get everyone here.

00:20:46: Monica Li: You're obviously doing the parties.

00:20:47: Monica Li: I guess what's the kind of preparation you

00:20:51: Monica Li: do when you plan conferences?

00:20:53: Kai: Sure.

00:20:54: Kai: So I'm very thankful for my marketing and

00:20:56: Kai: sales teams that I have.

00:20:58: Kai: They help us in preparation for all of

00:21:01: Kai: these events.

00:21:02: Kai: So just awareness branding we're not really,

00:21:06: Kai: we don't really enjoy being hard

00:21:07: Kai: salespeople.

00:21:08: Kai: We're like just come hang out with us.

00:21:11: Monica Li: I remember that, yes, and it's.

00:21:13: Kai: You know it's what kind of sets us apart.

00:21:15: Kai: I don't know if that's from my personality

00:21:17: Kai: or my boss's personality, but you know

00:21:20: Kai: we're not.

00:21:20: Kai: We're not real sales people, we're just

00:21:23: Kai: people, people, people, people.

00:21:26: Kai: Yeah, so that's why we are known for our

00:21:28: Kai: parties.

00:21:29: Kai: So I get the fun job of getting to plan

00:21:31: Kai: these parties.

00:21:32: Kai: So whatever we're doing, it's probably

00:21:33: Kai: because that's what I wanted to do and it

00:21:36: Kai: was good in in the past.

00:21:37: Monica Li: So fun, do you?

00:21:38: Kai: remember that ping pong?

00:21:39: Kai: Yeah, it was in seattle, right.

00:21:41: Monica Li: Yeah, yeah, that was so fun I was looking

00:21:44: Monica Li: forward to to k-scope party from viscosity,

00:21:46: Monica Li: but we have to talk about that later right?

00:21:48: Kai: yes, sometimes, you know, we just gotta

00:21:50: Kai: focus on our clients and have a nice night,

00:21:54: Kai: but there there may be some things going on.

00:21:58: Kai: Oh yeah, there might be secret parties.

00:22:00: Kai: We'll see.

00:22:01: Monica Li: We'll see.

00:22:02: Monica Li: I'm in the loop, we might have to turn off

00:22:04: Monica Li: the microphones, but yeah, let's dive into

00:22:07: Monica Li: our categories.

00:22:08: Monica Li: So I didn't tell you before.

00:22:11: Monica Li: So we have our categories.

00:22:13: Monica Li: The listeners of the podcast wished them

00:22:14: Monica Li: back at the last conference, so we

00:22:15: Monica Li: introduced our categories.

00:22:16: Monica Li: The listeners of the podcast wish them back

00:22:16: Monica Li: at the last conference, so we introduced

00:22:17: Monica Li: them again.

00:22:18: Monica Li: And those categories are used to compare,

00:22:21: Monica Li: like our guests, a little bit to see how

00:22:23: Monica Li: they work with different stuff.

00:22:24: Monica Li: And we have three categories inside this

00:22:27: Monica Li: section.

00:22:27: Monica Li: It's hypothetically this might be the first

00:22:29: Monica Li: time I said this word correctly on the

00:22:31: Monica Li: first try and in private and consumption.

00:22:35: Monica Li: So the first question from the category

00:22:37: Monica Li: hypothetically, it's the second time on

00:22:39: Monica Li: FastRy Nice, if you could undo one

00:22:42: Monica Li: technological trend in recent years, what

00:22:44: Monica Li: would it be?

00:22:46: Monica Li: It could be everything right.

00:22:47: Monica Li: You don't have to talk about databases, we

00:22:49: Monica Li: already had that point.

00:22:50: Monica Li: It could be no, I will not say any example.

00:22:53: Monica Li: That wasn't an error I did before.

00:22:56: Kai: I feel, and this kind of goes against what

00:22:59: Kai: I do for a living.

00:23:01: Kai: But my first instinct wasn't really I don't

00:23:05: Kai: have a word for it but just the quantity of

00:23:09: Kai: how accessible video and all of this

00:23:14: Kai: swiping action.

00:23:16: Kai: I'm not a fan of it and it just, you know,

00:23:20: Kai: on your brain.

00:23:21: Kai: It's a great tool for so many reasons, but

00:23:25: Kai: I feel like it is making a lot of our

00:23:27: Kai: brains kind of crumble a little bit.

00:23:30: Monica Li: So this time I avoided giving you any

00:23:33: Monica Li: example, but always those categories.

00:23:36: Monica Li: The same question almost every time will be

00:23:38: Monica Li: answered with exactly this answer Really

00:23:40: Monica Li: yes.

00:23:41: Kai: It's like too much and it's not.

00:23:44: Kai: There's not always reliable sources of what

00:23:46: Kai: you're reading, right.

00:23:47: Kai: There's too much of it and you could apply

00:23:49: Kai: this to anything right?

00:23:50: Kai: Dating, TikTok, Instagram, all these things,

00:23:54: Kai: and it's just like it's kind of made people

00:23:56: Kai: a little more robotic in a way, not as

00:24:00: Kai: considerate as to what they're actually

00:24:02: Kai: consuming, and, yeah, it's just, it's a

00:24:05: Kai: mess.

00:24:07: Monica Li: It's a mess I told you before, so we knew

00:24:09: Monica Li: that, like, this is the answer many of our

00:24:12: Monica Li: guests are giving.

00:24:13: Monica Li: So what we started in November last year is

00:24:15: Monica Li: recording this with those cameras standing

00:24:17: Monica Li: around us right now, just to publish 20

00:24:20: Monica Li: seconds bits on exactly those platforms

00:24:22: Monica Li: that you want to get rid of.

00:24:25: Monica Li: But yeah, let's use it like an instrument

00:24:27: Monica Li: to get people up to date and show a bit of

00:24:30: Monica Li: advertisement.

00:24:31: Monica Li: So what we will never do is split the

00:24:34: Monica Li: screen in two paths.

00:24:35: Monica Li: In the one lower part there's some game to

00:24:38: Monica Li: keep everyone interested while listening to

00:24:40: Monica Li: something.

00:24:41: Monica Li: I think this is really a problem of those

00:24:44: Monica Li: platforms that you have videos and you need

00:24:46: Monica Li: something else in it to have the attention

00:24:48: Monica Li: span, which is like decreasing heavily from

00:24:51: Monica Li: people.

00:24:51: Monica Li: They are not able.

00:24:53: Monica Li: I don't want to bash young people anymore,

00:24:54: Monica Li: but that that people are using those

00:24:57: Monica Li: platforms are not able to watch like 10

00:24:58: Monica Li: minute videos on youtube.

00:25:00: Kai: They need something quicker and faster and

00:25:01: Kai: they just swipe through it the instant,

00:25:03: Kai: gratification has come yeah to a whole new

00:25:07: Kai: extreme.

00:25:08: Kai: You know, no one remembers waiting for

00:25:11: Kai: dial-up to like get connected.

00:25:14: Monica Li: Exactly, I remember that time.

00:25:15: Monica Li: Right.

00:25:17: Kai: Yeah, no, it's an for.

00:25:23: Kai: As a marketer, it's crazy to compete with

00:25:24: Kai: that, but as a consumer, it's just it's.

00:25:26: Kai: It is difficult to focus on things, to

00:25:28: Kai: focus on things and find the content that

00:25:31: Kai: really matters sometimes.

00:25:33: Monica Li: So, yeah, so that's not the goal of the

00:25:35: Monica Li: shorts and reels, right?

00:25:36: Monica Li: So I have this guilty pleasure that I'm

00:25:39: Monica Li: using those platforms and swiping to it,

00:25:41: Monica Li: but only once a day in the evening, to shut

00:25:44: Monica Li: my brain off.

00:25:45: Monica Li: I do the same in the evening to shut my

00:25:49: Monica Li: brain off, because this is exactly what you

00:25:49: Monica Li: have to do, because there's no sense in it.

00:25:50: Monica Li: But you can see, you can laugh at it, you

00:25:51: Monica Li: can swipe it away, you can just see

00:25:53: Monica Li: something interesting, but there's no like

00:25:56: Monica Li: quality of content in there, right and so.

00:25:58: Monica Li: So you don't get anything like news, news

00:26:01: Monica Li: from politics or something in it it's just

00:26:03: Monica Li: like wasting my time and shutting my brain

00:26:06: Monica Li: off, and that's's really Absolutely what I

00:26:08: Monica Li: do Memes all night until I can just forget

00:26:11: Monica Li: the-.

00:26:12: Monica Li: All right, let's try to get rid of that in

00:26:14: Monica Li: the future.

00:26:15: Kai: Yes, I always think of?

00:26:16: Kai: Is it from Superman, where they say with

00:26:18: Kai: great power comes great responsibility?

00:26:20: Kai: Yeah, that is what a content creator needs

00:26:22: Kai: to remember.

00:26:23: Kai: Wow, this is such a great quote.

00:26:25: Monica Li: I might do.

00:26:26: Monica Li: I might create a shot of it and put it on

00:26:28: Monica Li: the platform next week, also awesome.

00:26:31: Monica Li: Let's go to the next category.

00:26:32: Monica Li: So in private, would you show us a screen

00:26:35: Monica Li: time?

00:26:35: Monica Li: It's basically going to the same topic.

00:26:37: Monica Li: Would you show us your screen time on the

00:26:39: Monica Li: phone without blushing you?

00:26:41: Monica Li: Don't actually have to show it.

00:26:43: Monica Li: Oh yeah, some people are embarrassed by

00:26:45: Monica Li: being on the phone.

00:26:46: Kai: I was literally grabbing my phone right now.

00:26:47: Kai: I, yeah, I would.

00:26:48: Kai: Some people are embarrassed by being on the

00:26:49: Kai: phone.

00:26:49: Monica Li: I was literally grabbing my phone right now.

00:26:50: Monica Li: I was like, okay here, look at it Like it's

00:26:51: Monica Li: 25 hours a day, right, it's constantly on

00:26:52: Monica Li: the phone.

00:26:53: Monica Li: No, so this is basically.

00:26:55: Monica Li: It's coming back in the consumption part of

00:26:57: Monica Li: the categories.

00:26:59: Monica Li: Next question from in private Are you

00:27:01: Monica Li: satisfied with your work-life balance?

00:27:02: Kai: Ooh, that's a great question.

00:27:06: Kai: I have struggled with that for many years

00:27:09: Kai: and I am finally maybe of the last two

00:27:11: Kai: years feeling a lot happier with it.

00:27:14: Kai: I realized after a year of doing that on

00:27:16: Kai: top of my job, I started really hating

00:27:18: Kai: dance.

00:27:30: Kai: I had created two jobs back to back and I

00:27:34: Kai: didn't have my fun, stress-free dance life

00:27:39: Kai: anymore.

00:27:39: Monica Li: As soon as money comes into the game.

00:27:41: Monica Li: It's not the same right.

00:27:44: Kai: It's a different expectation of you too,

00:27:45: Kai: right?

00:27:46: Kai: I'm not just doing it for fun.

00:27:47: Kai: I now need to perfect it.

00:27:48: Kai: I need to deliver whatever someone paid for

00:27:51: Kai: and what they sought us out for.

00:27:54: Kai: So, yeah, it just became super stressful

00:27:57: Kai: and I feel like I was doing good before

00:27:59: Kai: that.

00:28:00: Kai: And then I was like, oh, this is great, I

00:28:01: Kai: can get paid to dance.

00:28:02: Kai: And then after a year of that, I was like,

00:28:04: Kai: oh, I went backwards in my work-life

00:28:05: Kai: balance.

00:28:05: Kai: After a year of that I was like, oh, I went

00:28:06: Kai: backwards in my work-life balance, so I'm

00:28:07: Kai: coming back to it this year Now.

00:28:09: Kai: I'm trying to rework my like health goals

00:28:12: Kai: back in there.

00:28:12: Kai: Because after all of that dancing, I was

00:28:14: Kai: like, oh, I'm taking a break.

00:28:16: Kai: And then I was like, oh no, I can't take a

00:28:17: Kai: break this long.

00:28:19: Monica Li: Avoid getting any hobby that you can make

00:28:22: Monica Li: money out of it, so you might go the same

00:28:24: Monica Li: route right.

00:28:25: Kai: Yes.

00:28:25: Kai: So, yes, it's always been a struggle.

00:28:27: Kai: I quite honestly love my job and I love

00:28:31: Kai: working.

00:28:31: Kai: I love doing things.

00:28:33: Kai: So that was always hard for many, many

00:28:35: Kai: years to turn off that brain, obviously

00:28:38: Kai: with viscosity.

00:28:39: Kai: Since I do so many different things, it can

00:28:41: Kai: be hard to get everything done.

00:28:43: Monica Li: Do you ever love it?

00:28:44: Kai: I do love it, yeah but do you ever love it?

00:28:45: Kai: I do love it, but I have had to learn that,

00:28:48: Kai: even if I think I love it and I want to do

00:28:51: Kai: it all day long, no, I need to put those

00:28:53: Kai: boundaries down.

00:28:54: Kai: And there's so many other aspects of life I

00:28:56: Kai: need to focus on as well, and it ultimately

00:28:58: Kai: just makes me happier.

00:29:08: Monica Li: So I'll still sometimes have just a late

00:29:09: Monica Li: nighter for fun, getting work stuff done,

00:29:10: Monica Li: but it's not sustainable.

00:29:10: Monica Li: I mean our German listeners might be happy

00:29:11: Monica Li: for that because I always like.

00:29:14: Monica Li: We had one episode a German guest was

00:29:16: Monica Li: telling us the new word like not work-life

00:29:19: Monica Li: balance.

00:29:19: Monica Li: It was like work-life blending.

00:29:21: Monica Li: Because, if you love your job, if you can

00:29:24: Monica Li: adjust what you do on each and every day,

00:29:26: Monica Li: you can just adjust it with what you like

00:29:29: Monica Li: to do, right?

00:29:29: Monica Li: So when I'm doing social media stuff and

00:29:31: Monica Li: doing maybe podcasting stuff or preparing

00:29:33: Monica Li: presentations and it kind of fits into what

00:29:36: Monica Li: I'm doing each and every day in the office,

00:29:39: Monica Li: then I can just see that it makes me happy

00:29:41: Monica Li: in the end of the day.

00:29:42: Monica Li: And it's not like work and private time,

00:29:44: Monica Li: it's like blending.

00:29:46: Kai: I love that.

00:29:47: Kai: I think you just explained my whole life.

00:29:50: Monica Li: So now you can use this term and you can.

00:29:52: Monica Li: Whenever you talk to someone, you can use

00:29:54: Monica Li: this term as much as I do in this podcast.

00:29:56: Kai: I love that Work-life blending Okay.

00:29:59: Monica Li: Yeah, awesome.

00:29:59: Kai: That's my new motto.

00:30:02: Monica Li: Also to get this into your life now, all

00:30:04: Monica Li: right.

00:30:05: Monica Li: Next category is consumption.

00:30:06: Monica Li: So how do you consume news and knowledge so

00:30:10: Monica Li: like if it's news in the politics,

00:30:12: Monica Li: economics or even in your business life,

00:30:15: Monica Li: like marketing news and something, or

00:30:17: Monica Li: fashion, fashion news?

00:30:19: Monica Li: Do you use like newsletters, twitter, books,

00:30:21: Monica Li: magazines, or what is your way to consume

00:30:24: Monica Li: something besides swiping right?

00:30:26: Kai: Yep, there are a couple of things I

00:30:28: Kai: probably subscribe to to at least give me

00:30:30: Kai: snippets daily of things that I may want to

00:30:33: Kai: know.

00:30:33: Kai: Just worldwide news, local news.

00:30:36: Kai: I think I have some on tech news, but I

00:30:37: Kai: don't open them very often.

00:30:39: Monica Li: But you say you subscribe to them right.

00:30:41: Monica Li: Yes.

00:30:43: Kai: So I do try to revisit some of those things.

00:30:47: Kai: Honestly, if we talk about consumption,

00:30:50: Kai: Instagram is my downfall.

00:30:52: Kai: Instagram is where I get everything, but I

00:30:55: Kai: am always a see something on Instagram.

00:30:58: Kai: Google it afterwards, Because I like to at

00:31:01: Kai: least try to find different takes on

00:31:04: Kai: whatever I see there.

00:31:06: Monica Li: You know, there's a setting in the iPhone

00:31:08: Monica Li: which is restricting screen time for

00:31:10: Monica Li: different apps.

00:31:11: Monica Li: Oh yeah, so if you say it's a downfall, you

00:31:13: Monica Li: might change something.

00:31:14: Kai: We might need to look and see what my

00:31:16: Kai: screen time is there.

00:31:18: Monica Li: We might do that afterwards, so you don't

00:31:20: Monica Li: have to push.

00:31:21: Monica Li: So Caro did a great thing.

00:31:22: Monica Li: Also already mentioned in a German episode

00:31:24: Monica Li: of Devs on Tape that she turns her iPhone

00:31:29: Monica Li: screen to black and white, so the visual

00:31:32: Monica Li: engagement is not that high.

00:31:33: Monica Li: So don't get this Right so you can see

00:31:36: Monica Li: everything, you can read everything, you

00:31:38: Monica Li: can see the pictures, but it's not so

00:31:41: Monica Li: addicting, right.

00:31:42: Monica Li: So this might be another thing, I will

00:31:46: Monica Li: never see you with the iPhone in black and

00:31:47: Monica Li: white.

00:31:48: Monica Li: I'm very sure of that, but I will.

00:31:50: Monica Li: I will try, let's.

00:31:51: Monica Li: Let's see if this works for you.

00:31:53: Monica Li: So next question do you turn off your cell

00:31:56: Monica Li: phone at night?

00:31:57: Kai: off no never off and it is my alarm clock,

00:32:01: Kai: so that's not so great but, this question

00:32:20: Kai: is like pointing at being available for

00:32:23: Kai: work, like emergency calls, I don't know

00:32:25: Kai: have my iPhone on me all the time either.

00:32:28: Kai: I will say, with consumption, the difficult

00:32:30: Kai: part of you know, if you're an iPhone and a

00:32:33: Kai: MacBook, that can make it hard for work and

00:32:37: Kai: all my volunteer work that I do outside of

00:32:39: Kai: work, it's a lot of texting and so that is

00:32:43: Kai: in my face a lot, but at night shoot I'm

00:32:45: Kai: pretty good at ignoring people.

00:32:48: Kai: So sorry everybody if you now know why I'm

00:32:51: Kai: not responding to you sometimes.

00:32:53: Monica Li: So this is the information for everyone who

00:32:56: Monica Li: listens to the podcast until the end.

00:32:58: Monica Li: Thank you very much for joining me, Monika.

00:32:59: Monica Li: It was really a great pleasure to talk to

00:33:02: Monica Li: you and get an insight of everything we

00:33:03: Monica Li: already thought you would do, because

00:33:05: Monica Li: you're jumping around being on every single

00:33:07: Monica Li: conferences, every happy.

00:33:09: Kai: This is no coffee either.

00:33:12: Monica Li: Also, I would like to thank Caro again for

00:33:15: Monica Li: cutting this episode.

00:33:16: Monica Li: Until when she's coming to this part of the

00:33:18: Monica Li: episode, she might be happy about being

00:33:19: Monica Li: greeted again.

00:33:20: Monica Li: So, caro, everything will be good and we

00:33:24: Monica Li: see you or hear you right after.

00:33:27: Kai: Yes, and we're thinking of you.

00:33:29: Monica Li: Exactly so.

00:33:30: Monica Li: Thank you again, thank you to our listeners,

00:33:32: Monica Li: and we will hear each other in two weeks

00:33:34: Monica Li: again.

00:33:35: Kai: Have a great conference.

00:33:46: Kai: Thank you so much for having me.

00:33:55: Monica Li: This episode is powered by Hyatt, your

00:33:57: Monica Li: smart companion for digital business

00:33:59: Monica Li: solutions, and Biodetec's gracious

00:34:01: Monica Li: invitations and support.

00:34:02: Monica Li: Thank you for having me at the conference

00:34:04: Monica Li: and fueling this journey.