Devs on Tap(e) x KSCOPE25 - The APEX House

00:00:00: Kai Donato: This episode is powered by Hyatt, your

00:00:02: Kai Donato: smart companion for digital business

00:00:04: Kai Donato: solutions, and Biodetec's gracious

00:00:06: Kai Donato: invitations and support.

00:00:07: Kai Donato: Thank you for having me at the conference

00:00:09: Kai Donato: and fueling this journey.

00:00:10: Kai Donato: Let's go.

00:00:24: Kai Donato: Hello and welcome to another episode of

00:00:26: Kai Donato: Devs on Tap, this time from Dallas.

00:00:30: Kai Donato: So whoever follows the videos of the

00:00:31: Kai Donato: podcast, you can see that I have quite a

00:00:34: Kai Donato: few guys sitting here with me on a couch.

00:00:37: Kai Donato: Basically, it's during the time zone

00:00:40: Kai Donato: difference it's 4.43 in the morning.

00:00:44: Kai Donato: For us from Germany and the guy sitting

00:00:47: Kai Donato: next to me it's just two hours difference.

00:00:50: Kai Donato: I guess it's 7.43.

00:00:52: Kai Donato: Okay, for everyone who can't see us right

00:00:54: Kai Donato: now, let's do a short introduction of

00:00:57: Kai Donato: everyone and we start on the right.

00:00:59: Jon Dixon: Yeah, I'm John Dixon.

00:01:01: Jon Dixon: I think that's all I need to say.

00:01:03: Kai Donato: That's all I need to say.

00:01:04: Kai Donato: All right, yeah, my name is Avias Cajdonato.

00:01:07: Moritz Klein: Next one.

00:01:07: Kai Donato: I'm Philipp Hahnfeller.

00:01:09: Moritz Klein: And I'm Rutz Klein.

00:01:10: Kai Donato: And, as you already know, when we're

00:01:12: Kai Donato: talking about devs on tap, it's not the

00:01:14: Kai Donato: usual thing we are doing, it's almost the

00:01:17: Kai Donato: usual thing we're doing, but with beers,

00:01:19: Kai Donato: right, it's a little bit the other way

00:01:21: Kai Donato: around.

00:01:22: Kai Donato: So yeah, finally we got it working here

00:01:25: Kai Donato: with our setup late at night.

00:01:27: Moritz Klein: We forgot something, we forgot what.

00:01:30: Moritz Klein: Yeah, hello, caro Sleep tight.

00:01:33: Kai Donato: Yeah, maybe she's sleeping right now, but

00:01:37: Kai Donato: we are not allowed to forget her because

00:01:40: Kai Donato: she's waiting for her first child in the

00:01:43: Kai Donato: right moment.

00:01:44: Kai Donato: That's the reason why she cannot attend

00:01:46: Kai Donato: this conference and recording podcast with

00:01:48: Kai Donato: me, all right.

00:01:49: Kai Donato: So back to setting up the stuff here.

00:01:52: Kai Donato: It was quite a hassle.

00:01:54: Kai Donato: We found out that in front of our Airbnb is

00:01:56: Kai Donato: a very nice lighting, lightning or lighting

00:01:59: Kai Donato: situation, and after I set up everything it

00:02:02: Kai Donato: was dark and was infested by bugs

00:02:04: Kai Donato: everywhere and spiders, and we have to move

00:02:06: Kai Donato: in and switch places again and again, and

00:02:08: Kai Donato: again.

00:02:09: Kai Donato: Finally, we found our place in front of the

00:02:11: Kai Donato: tv on the couch and awaiting another guy

00:02:14: Kai Donato: coming in.

00:02:15: Kai Donato: So Matt Mulvaney is joining us.

00:02:17: Kai Donato: I hope so.

00:02:18: Kai Donato: I hope he's finding the address here.

00:02:20: Kai Donato: But yeah, let's do the usual devs on tap.

00:02:23: Kai Donato: Guys, we are here for case scope 2025 in

00:02:26: Kai Donato: the gay lord texan resort, which is

00:02:28: Kai Donato: starting on sunday.

00:02:30: Kai Donato: Maybe we can just make a quick round and

00:02:33: Kai Donato: tell everyone what our expectations for the

00:02:36: Kai Donato: conference are meeting wonderful people

00:02:38: Kai Donato: from our community wonderful people from

00:02:41: Kai Donato: the community.

00:02:41: Kai Donato: There should be plenty of them so other

00:02:45: Kai Donato: than you guys?

00:02:46: Moritz Klein: Oh, come on, that's what you're saying.

00:02:50: Kai Donato: We're just traveling around the world

00:02:51: Kai Donato: together and the only thing I was

00:02:53: Kai Donato: remembering is that you are just being a.

00:02:56: Kai Donato: Okay.

00:02:57: Kai Donato: This should be a sense of right.

00:02:59: Moritz Klein: Something hat?

00:03:00: Moritz Klein: Yeah, I get it.

00:03:02: Kai Donato: So what are you expecting?

00:03:04: Moritz Klein: I mean meeting people I don't meet too

00:03:07: Moritz Klein: often because they are different, on a

00:03:09: Moritz Klein: different time zone or on different parts

00:03:11: Moritz Klein: of the world.

00:03:12: Moritz Klein: Yeah, having fun Meeting new people always

00:03:16: Moritz Klein: happens at Kscope.

00:03:18: Moritz Klein: And yeah, seeing interesting presentations,

00:03:21: Moritz Klein: I hope.

00:03:22: Kai Donato: Let's see, john, what about you?

00:03:24: Jon Dixon: I'm meeting new people for sure.

00:03:26: Jon Dixon: I'll give a quick story from back in the

00:03:29: Jon Dixon: case scope in denver where I hadn't met any

00:03:32: Jon Dixon: of you guys, I don't think and I was in the

00:03:34: Jon Dixon: hallway and talking about some

00:03:38: Jon Dixon: presentations that were going to be at that

00:03:39: Jon Dixon: case scope and one of the presentations was

00:03:40: Jon Dixon: on flows for apex and I said, oh, I don't,

00:03:41: Jon Dixon: I don't get that, I don't understand why

00:03:42: Jon Dixon: that that product exists.

00:03:42: Jon Dixon: Of course I was on Flows for Apex and I

00:03:43: Jon Dixon: said, oh, I don't, I don't get that, I

00:03:45: Jon Dixon: don't understand why that that product

00:03:47: Jon Dixon: exists.

00:03:47: Jon Dixon: Of course I was talking to Moritz at the

00:03:50: Jon Dixon: time, so that's how I met Moritz and we've

00:03:53: Jon Dixon: been good friends since then, I think.

00:03:55: Kai Donato: Henry Suryawirawan Never regretted that.

00:03:57: Jon Dixon: But I met probably 20 people at that

00:03:59: Jon Dixon: conference I'd never met before.

00:04:00: Jon Dixon: So that happens every case.

00:04:02: Jon Dixon: Scope, then I'm doing well.

00:04:05: Kai Donato: Great answer, awesome.

00:04:06: Kai Donato: And before the conference starts and we are

00:04:08: Kai Donato: meeting great people, we are stuck in this

00:04:10: Kai Donato: Airbnb together, right?

00:04:11: Kai Donato: So we call it the Apex house.

00:04:14: Kai Donato: There we go.

00:04:15: Kai Donato: That's a nice combination.

00:04:16: Kai Donato: So we are sharing the Airbnb for, yeah, I

00:04:19: Kai Donato: think three days before we're going over to

00:04:21: Kai Donato: the conference location and the conference

00:04:23: Kai Donato: will start, and I think three days before

00:04:31: Kai Donato: we're going over to the conference location

00:04:32: Kai Donato: and the conference will start, and I think

00:04:32: Kai Donato: we will have many content pieces coming out

00:04:33: Kai Donato: of this in the three days here.

00:04:34: Kai Donato: I will be better prepared, I guess, for the

00:04:35: Kai Donato: next days besides today.

00:04:35: Kai Donato: All right, so you are not only expecting

00:04:37: Kai Donato: things from case scope, you're also

00:04:38: Kai Donato: contributing things.

00:04:40: Kai Donato: So what are you contributing to the

00:04:41: Kai Donato: conference, john?

00:04:42: Kai Donato: You're, I guess you're talking about.

00:04:45: Jon Dixon: I've got a few different presentations.

00:04:48: Jon Dixon: The first time ever I'm doing a

00:04:49: Jon Dixon: presentation with one of my customers,

00:04:51: Jon Dixon: which I'm particularly looking forward to a

00:04:53: Jon Dixon: vice president from Mars, so that'll be fun.

00:04:56: Jon Dixon: And doing another presentation on

00:04:58: Jon Dixon: background Apex, all the stuff that runs in

00:05:01: Jon Dixon: the background, background page processes,

00:05:03: Jon Dixon: automations, that kind of stuff.

00:05:05: Jon Dixon: And then doing one on list of values.

00:05:08: Jon Dixon: So it's not something fancy but something

00:05:11: Jon Dixon: that everybody needs to do in Apex.

00:05:13: Jon Dixon: So three presentations, when I count it

00:05:16: Jon Dixon: right, and one lightning talk, yep, and a

00:05:19: Jon Dixon: panel on Apex versus visual builder, and we

00:05:23: Jon Dixon: all know there's only one winner there.

00:05:24: Kai Donato: So four things, five things, five yes on

00:05:25: Kai Donato: Apex versus Visual Builder, and we all know

00:05:27: Kai Donato: there's only one winner there so four

00:05:28: Kai Donato: things, five things, five, yes, and maybe

00:05:29: Kai Donato: we will record another session of Devs on

00:05:31: Kai Donato: Tape.

00:05:32: Kai Donato: Better prepare than now, maybe.

00:05:33: Kai Donato: All right, so you got, like that's up to

00:05:35: Kai Donato: you, though, really Each and every day

00:05:38: Kai Donato: fully packed with stuff that sounds great.

00:05:40: Kai Donato: Moritz, what are you contributing to the

00:05:42: Kai Donato: conference besides being there?

00:05:44: Moritz Klein: Yeah, isn't that enough?

00:05:46: Moritz Klein: Yeah, Okay, Let me think.

00:05:49: Moritz Klein: So I have a talk on what was it?

00:05:53: Moritz Klein: Oracle Text?

00:05:54: Moritz Klein: And also a bit comparison to Vector Search.

00:05:58: Moritz Klein: Oracle Text Like a hybrid search oh, hybrid

00:06:02: Moritz Klein: yeah.

00:06:03: Moritz Klein: I mean it's a crossover, yeah, Because

00:06:06: Moritz Klein: Oracle text has been there since Oracle

00:06:09: Moritz Klein: eight something.

00:06:10: Moritz Klein: Wow, yes, yes, quite some features.

00:06:14: Moritz Klein: The other talk is on a combination of flows

00:06:19: Moritz Klein: for Apex and what's called Chasen region.

00:06:22: Moritz Klein: It's a plugin by a German guy which I will

00:06:26: Moritz Klein: always butcher the name because I'm so bad

00:06:28: Moritz Klein: with names and we've worked together and, I

00:06:31: Moritz Klein: think, created something pretty cool.

00:06:33: Moritz Klein: And then I also will have Lightning Talk,

00:06:36: Moritz Klein: which will also have a bit of flows for

00:06:38: Moritz Klein: Apex.

00:06:38: Moritz Klein: But in today's world you can get along

00:06:42: Moritz Klein: without AI, so I will probably show a

00:06:45: Moritz Klein: couple of the ai things that are in some

00:06:49: Moritz Klein: future release of those favex.

00:06:52: Moritz Klein: I sound like an oracle guy because I can't

00:06:54: Moritz Klein: give a release date and have to be a bit

00:06:56: Moritz Klein: more unclear on when and what.

00:07:00: Moritz Klein: Yeah, yeah, and I will probably be at the

00:07:03: Moritz Klein: ACE booth also, which I still have to

00:07:05: Moritz Klein: register for.

00:07:07: Moritz Klein: Probably say I can say it here I'm sorry,

00:07:09: Moritz Klein: jen, I forgot to register.

00:07:12: Moritz Klein: I will do it.

00:07:13: Kai Donato: It's duty, you have to do it right.

00:07:15: Kai Donato: As ACE director, we're asked to contribute.

00:07:19: Kai Donato: I nicely said All right, philipp, what are

00:07:21: Kai Donato: you contributing?

00:07:22: Philipp Hartenfeller: to First.

00:07:22: Philipp Hartenfeller: I think the two of these forgot something

00:07:25: Philipp Hartenfeller: there in the the abstract committee right

00:07:27: Philipp Hartenfeller: oh yes john and moritz.

00:07:29: Moritz Klein: All right, this is actually actually.

00:07:31: Moritz Klein: I have to correct that that's the first

00:07:33: Moritz Klein: time I got an impression of john and the

00:07:35: Moritz Klein: abstract committee because I I send in a

00:07:38: Moritz Klein: talk on flows for apex.

00:07:40: Moritz Klein: That's and what I was talking about and we

00:07:43: Moritz Klein: could.

00:07:44: Moritz Klein: We could see the comment and I was reading

00:07:47: Moritz Klein: like probably not quoted a hundred percent,

00:07:49: Moritz Klein: but it was like I'm not sure we should be

00:07:53: Moritz Klein: promoting some unknown open source project,

00:07:57: Moritz Klein: Pretty much exactly what I said?

00:07:58: Jon Dixon: Yeah, yeah.

00:07:59: Moritz Klein: Yeah, no, I didn't take it bad.

00:08:02: Moritz Klein: So because this was fairly valuable input.

00:08:05: Moritz Klein: It's like bad marketing.

00:08:07: Moritz Klein: We have to clarify that this is here to

00:08:11: Moritz Klein: stay, so this was the gist of it.

00:08:13: Jon Dixon: So and that's when we met up at denver and

00:08:16: Jon Dixon: you introduced yourself and I go yeah oh

00:08:18: Jon Dixon: shit and yeah, you can.

00:08:21: Moritz Klein: Okay, I was good, it was an honest, honest

00:08:24: Moritz Klein: opinion, and I appreciate that so this is

00:08:28: Moritz Klein: the reason why you guys are sitting two

00:08:30: Moritz Klein: meters yeah.

00:08:32: Kai Donato: But, it's all fine.

00:08:33: Moritz Klein: No, no, no the reason why we're sitting so

00:08:36: Moritz Klein: far apart is because John once used

00:08:38: Moritz Klein: positional notation in one of his blog

00:08:40: Moritz Klein: posts.

00:08:43: Jon Dixon: That's what makes it such a great community

00:08:44: Jon Dixon: that you can have those conversations and

00:08:46: Jon Dixon: still make great friends.

00:08:48: Kai Donato: And you can live in one Airbnb together

00:08:51: Kai Donato: without killing each other right?

00:08:54: Matt Mulvaney: I don't want to jinx it.

00:08:57: Kai Donato: Alright Philipp.

00:08:57: Kai Donato: Finally, what are you contributing to the

00:08:59: Kai Donato: conference?

00:08:59: Philipp Hartenfeller: Thanks, to these two I have talks accepted

00:09:01: Philipp Hartenfeller: and the others from the committee.

00:09:03: Philipp Hartenfeller: I have to do one with Kevin Tyson, a

00:09:05: Philipp Hartenfeller: colleague colleague of mine about apex

00:09:07: Philipp Hartenfeller: security.

00:09:07: Philipp Hartenfeller: That's also like basic, not fancy but I

00:09:10: Philipp Hartenfeller: think very important talk.

00:09:11: Philipp Hartenfeller: Then I this year I kind of do some

00:09:14: Philipp Hartenfeller: designing and css, so I have a talk about

00:09:17: Philipp Hartenfeller: using css variables in apex.

00:09:18: Philipp Hartenfeller: I think that's a topic that's has not much

00:09:22: Philipp Hartenfeller: things going on currently and I tried

00:09:25: Philipp Hartenfeller: myself with user experience.

00:09:26: Philipp Hartenfeller: I think that's a like for me it was a

00:09:28: Philipp Hartenfeller: different topic because it's hard to grasp.

00:09:32: Philipp Hartenfeller: Like you know code, you can understand if

00:09:34: Philipp Hartenfeller: it's like a good code or you have metrics,

00:09:36: Philipp Hartenfeller: but I think, like good design is hard to

00:09:38: Philipp Hartenfeller: catch.

00:09:39: Philipp Hartenfeller: So I try to get some rules, some best

00:09:42: Philipp Hartenfeller: practices that people can follow and

00:09:44: Philipp Hartenfeller: hopefully agree on with me.

00:09:46: Philipp Hartenfeller: So yeah, I'm excited.

00:09:47: Kai Donato: Sounds great.

00:09:48: Kai Donato: So what I'm contributing?

00:09:50: Kai Donato: I'm just sitting there recording Devs on

00:09:52: Kai Donato: Tape episodes and maybe Devs on Tape 2.

00:09:54: Kai Donato: We see that.

00:09:55: Kai Donato: And yeah, finally, I was thinking that Matt

00:09:58: Kai Donato: is joining us each and every second so we

00:10:00: Kai Donato: can ask him all the questions.

00:10:01: Kai Donato: We have to wait with that.

00:10:03: Kai Donato: But yes, so maybe we can talk about your

00:10:05: Kai Donato: experience at Kscope in the last years.

00:10:08: Kai Donato: So when was your first Kscope?

00:10:10: Kai Donato: Wow it was Seattle.

00:10:12: Jon Dixon: I haven't been in the Apex community for

00:10:15: Jon Dixon: all that long, maybe seven years.

00:10:17: Jon Dixon: Whenever Seattle was about.

00:10:18: Jon Dixon: Six, seven years ago was the first time I

00:10:20: Jon Dixon: ever went to anything public Apex related.

00:10:24: Jon Dixon: But I was sort of stayed in the background,

00:10:26: Jon Dixon: didn't talk to anybody.

00:10:27: Jon Dixon: It was sort of in awe of everybody, if you

00:10:29: Jon Dixon: like.

00:10:30: Jon Dixon: And then I went to San Antonio, I talked to

00:10:33: Jon Dixon: a few people, and then Denver I got to know

00:10:37: Jon Dixon: everybody.

00:10:38: Kai Donato: Uber Eats Blue Moon and the bar.

00:10:44: Kai Donato: We are all remember, mostly at least,

00:10:45: Kai Donato: moritz, when was your first kiss go?

00:10:48: Moritz Klein: um question probably 2016, that isn't that

00:10:53: Moritz Klein: sentence.

00:10:54: Moritz Klein: An antonio 16, probably 17, I guess, or 17,

00:10:59: Moritz Klein: 16 was Chicago yeah okay, then 17, yeah,

00:11:03: Moritz Klein: 2017, san antonio, that golf resort thingy

00:11:08: Moritz Klein: yeah, I think, yeah, I was at that one I

00:11:11: Moritz Klein: remember we're going there and it's like,

00:11:13: Moritz Klein: yeah, okay, it will be hot, but try.

00:11:16: Moritz Klein: And then we sit in the car and it's like

00:11:17: Moritz Klein: humid, like hell and the uber driver says

00:11:20: Moritz Klein: yeah, we are really close to the water here.

00:11:23: Moritz Klein: How close just 300 miles, I mean.

00:11:26: Moritz Klein: For a european, this is like it sits across

00:11:28: Moritz Klein: the country, pretty much completely.

00:11:31: Moritz Klein: Yeah, that was there.

00:11:32: Moritz Klein: That was not sure if that was the

00:11:34: Moritz Klein: conference where I had a really funny

00:11:37: Moritz Klein: coincidence.

00:11:38: Moritz Klein: I think it was back then when, or a year

00:11:40: Moritz Klein: later, when the multilingual engine started

00:11:44: Moritz Klein: off in the Oracle database with like a

00:11:46: Moritz Klein: Docker image you can run and it was highly

00:11:49: Moritz Klein: experimental.

00:11:50: Moritz Klein: It started playing around with JavaScript

00:11:52: Moritz Klein: in the database, had a talk and, yeah,

00:11:54: Moritz Klein: godfather of PL SQL.

00:11:56: Moritz Klein: So Bryn came into the audience.

00:11:58: Moritz Klein: That was quite nerve-wracking for me, I

00:12:02: Moritz Klein: have to say, but he was a totally nice guy.

00:12:06: Jon Dixon: Which Kscope was it that you guys did the

00:12:08: Jon Dixon: PLC call versus?

00:12:10: Jon Dixon: Didn't you do a PLC?

00:12:11: Moritz Klein: call versus JavaScript one.

00:12:12: Moritz Klein: No, we didn't do that at a Kscope, I think.

00:12:15: Kai Donato: We did that in Oslo.

00:12:18: Moritz Klein: It was Oslo and somewhere else, I think.

00:12:22: Philipp Hartenfeller: I think you did it.

00:12:24: Philipp Hartenfeller: It could be Connect or.

00:12:25: Moritz Klein: Dock.

00:12:25: Moritz Klein: Yeah, I mean that one was originally

00:12:27: Moritz Klein: planned for Norwegian Oracle user group

00:12:31: Moritz Klein: when they were on the cruise boat with the

00:12:33: Moritz Klein: idea you're in a confined space, so there's

00:12:37: Moritz Klein: no running away.

00:12:39: Kai Donato: there was a tagline, yeah, and then finally

00:12:41: Kai Donato: we didn't end up in the boat.

00:12:43: Kai Donato: I know the tagline was like senseless, but

00:12:47: Kai Donato: yeah, we did it then in the Rebel

00:12:49: Kai Donato: headquarters, I guess in Oslo I mean that

00:12:52: Kai Donato: was exactly when the pandemic hit, that was

00:12:54: Kai Donato: when we planned to be the first time

00:12:57: Kai Donato: Norwegian Oracle.

00:12:58: Kai Donato: Music Group, I think two weeks before the

00:13:00: Kai Donato: boat starts like should have started, they

00:13:04: Kai Donato: said no, we, we cannot go.

00:13:06: Kai Donato: And this was I.

00:13:08: Kai Donato: I'm not exactly sure if it's the right

00:13:10: Kai Donato: story, but I think that was something they

00:13:13: Kai Donato: had to tackle financially because they

00:13:15: Kai Donato: rented the boat or at least rooms on the

00:13:18: Kai Donato: boat and like conference rooms, and then

00:13:21: Kai Donato: they have to step back and cannot do that

00:13:23: Kai Donato: and then they have to pay a very high fine

00:13:25: Kai Donato: and and legal legal costs and yeah, I think

00:13:29: Kai Donato: finally the finally they got it because

00:13:31: Kai Donato: they're going to boat again, but it was

00:13:34: Kai Donato: very nerve-wracking for them as far as I

00:13:36: Kai Donato: remember that, but, um, this is something

00:13:39: Kai Donato: we have to do.

00:13:39: Kai Donato: Still have to go on the boat.

00:13:41: Kai Donato: Your your first case, philip.

00:13:43: Philipp Hartenfeller: It was just two years ago, 2023, in Denver,

00:13:50: Philipp Hartenfeller: and we actually recorded.

00:13:51: Philipp Hartenfeller: That was your first case, philip, really

00:13:52: Philipp Hartenfeller: Okay.

00:13:52: Philipp Hartenfeller: It was also with the two ex-husbands.

00:13:55: Philipp Hartenfeller: That's where we met John.

00:13:56: Philipp Hartenfeller: He's older than he looks.

00:13:58: Philipp Hartenfeller: Definitely I'm allowed to drink.

00:14:00: Philipp Hartenfeller: I want to make that clear Fanta Like

00:14:04: Philipp Hartenfeller: lemonade.

00:14:06: Kai Donato: No, we actually did record a podcast before

00:14:09: Kai Donato: we attended my first Kscope we talked oh

00:14:12: Kai Donato: yeah, in the Airbnb, right like you were

00:14:14: Kai Donato: almost almost asleep, yeah on the table.

00:14:18: Philipp Hartenfeller: Yeah, I remember that, but this was

00:14:20: Philipp Hartenfeller: definitely a crazy experience for me

00:14:21: Philipp Hartenfeller: because it was the first time I left Europe.

00:14:24: Philipp Hartenfeller: And then like seeing Denver a few, because

00:14:26: Philipp Hartenfeller: it was the first time I left europe and

00:14:27: Philipp Hartenfeller: then like seeing denver a few days, use a

00:14:29: Philipp Hartenfeller: all the yeah, things that are different to

00:14:31: Philipp Hartenfeller: us of course, I know it from movies and

00:14:33: Philipp Hartenfeller: then going to kscope meeting all the

00:14:35: Philipp Hartenfeller: american people apart from the apex team

00:14:39: Philipp Hartenfeller: that, yeah, you don't see a lot in europe.

00:14:43: Philipp Hartenfeller: So, that's definitely addicting.

00:14:47: Kai Donato: I mean, we have a couple of conferences in

00:14:48: Kai Donato: Europe and they are almost similar, I think

00:14:50: Kai Donato: at least all the conferences in Germany.

00:14:53: Kai Donato: And then it's like a cultural shock when

00:14:55: Kai Donato: you're going to K-Scope.

00:14:56: Kai Donato: It's completely different.

00:14:57: Kai Donato: It's different food, different program.

00:15:01: Kai Donato: You see the vendors just in one and a half

00:15:03: Kai Donato: hours a day in one room packed and you're

00:15:06: Kai Donato: going in there eating, drinking and then

00:15:08: Kai Donato: talk to the vendors.

00:15:09: Kai Donato: It's completely opposite to what we know

00:15:11: Kai Donato: from europe and you have different time

00:15:13: Kai Donato: zone, different climate, like presets or

00:15:17: Kai Donato: yeah, in dallas and denver it was pretty

00:15:20: Kai Donato: hot both and yeah it was something very

00:15:24: Kai Donato: special yeah.

00:15:25: Moritz Klein: Philip, you forgot something.

00:15:26: Moritz Klein: In Denver.

00:15:27: Moritz Klein: You actually found your lost older brother.

00:15:31: Matt Mulvaney: Wow.

00:15:32: Moritz Klein: We were joking that in Denver once John and

00:15:36: Moritz Klein: Philip met, they were pretty much

00:15:38: Moritz Klein: inseparable.

00:15:39: Jon Dixon: I thought you were going to say rich soul,

00:15:40: Jon Dixon: because Philip destroyed him on the F1 game.

00:15:44: Moritz Klein: Oh, that's I think yeah, he found a nemesis.

00:15:48: Matt Mulvaney: Or rich found a nemesis.

00:15:53: Kai Donato: Yeah, I mean, you both learned to know each

00:15:56: Kai Donato: other and then we didn't see philip anymore,

00:15:58: Kai Donato: right?

00:15:59: Kai Donato: So you were walking around and moritz and I

00:16:01: Kai Donato: were a little bit disappointed, but then we

00:16:04: Kai Donato: saw that philip I mean each and every every

00:16:07: Kai Donato: chance to to get in the spotlight.

00:16:09: Kai Donato: Like he already mentioned, the f1 race,

00:16:11: Kai Donato: where he plays the first place, and still

00:16:14: Kai Donato: there.

00:16:15: Moritz Klein: I guess they grow up.

00:16:16: Moritz Klein: It happens, sometimes they leave the home.

00:16:23: Kai Donato: Yeah, fly, Little bird fly.

00:16:28: Kai Donato: And Daddy John.

00:16:29: Kai Donato: Can you please take care of him?

00:16:32: Jon Dixon: Uncle John, let's talk about that.

00:16:35: Jon Dixon: None of it sounds good.

00:16:38: Jon Dixon: We have to cut that out maybe we would see

00:16:41: Jon Dixon: okay, we're in america, it's okay, anything

00:16:44: Jon Dixon: goes in america at the moment okay, I will

00:16:46: Jon Dixon: not go deeper in that, because I have some

00:16:48: Jon Dixon: some part of america in my mind right now

00:16:51: Jon Dixon: where I talk about that.

00:16:52: Kai Donato: No, sorry, that was like interruption.

00:16:56: Kai Donato: Yeah, so we will see what we can expect

00:16:59: Kai Donato: from this case scope this year.

00:17:00: Kai Donato: So we are again at the gaylord resort, so

00:17:03: Kai Donato: this is something like a gated thing.

00:17:05: Kai Donato: We are all together in one area, in one

00:17:08: Kai Donato: hotel, if you want to call it like that, in

00:17:11: Kai Donato: one resort and we'll have like full packed

00:17:15: Kai Donato: days with talks, with presentations, with

00:17:18: Kai Donato: events.

00:17:18: Kai Donato: We will see people we we didn't see for for

00:17:23: Kai Donato: a long time and we see some special changes

00:17:26: Kai Donato: in the program of the hay scope.

00:17:27: Kai Donato: So, like a couple of changes from the

00:17:29: Kai Donato: evening events, like the firework, which is,

00:17:32: Kai Donato: as I learned to know today from from philip,

00:17:35: Kai Donato: already communicated via email that we have

00:17:37: Kai Donato: a drone show instead of a firework this

00:17:39: Kai Donato: time, and this is the first time I can see

00:17:41: Kai Donato: or I will see a like a drone show yeah, me

00:17:44: Kai Donato: too that's kind of impressive what I saw

00:17:47: Kai Donato: and on youtube.

00:17:48: Kai Donato: I don't know what to expect right now, but

00:17:51: Kai Donato: we will see.

00:17:51: Kai Donato: We have many, many cool talks, like

00:17:53: Kai Donato: lightning talks, and I will see if I can

00:17:55: Kai Donato: prepare something for DevSantay, for the

00:17:57: Kai Donato: lightning talks, because I cannot talk

00:17:58: Kai Donato: about anything new in Apex because I didn't

00:18:00: Kai Donato: do anything for the last couple of months

00:18:03: Kai Donato: or years, and maybe we can just play the

00:18:05: Kai Donato: intro of DevSantay, put a QR code on the

00:18:07: Kai Donato: wall and say listen, listen in, yeah, tune

00:18:10: Kai Donato: in That'd be cool, we'll see.

00:18:12: Kai Donato: Tune in That'd be cool, we'll see, and yeah.

00:18:16: Kai Donato: So if any one of you has anything to add to

00:18:19: Kai Donato: this episode of Devs on Tap, I was going to

00:18:21: Kai Donato: ask these guys what are they expecting

00:18:24: Kai Donato: technically?

00:18:24: Jon Dixon: Is there any revelations from Kscope?

00:18:27: Jon Dixon: Do you think?

00:18:28: Philipp Hartenfeller: It's a little bit I don't like that.

00:18:30: Philipp Hartenfeller: The Apex team is not communicating future

00:18:34: Philipp Hartenfeller: features anymore, so I guess from them we

00:18:37: Philipp Hartenfeller: see a lot of the things we might already

00:18:39: Philipp Hartenfeller: know.

00:18:40: Philipp Hartenfeller: Apex Lang was like leaked, or Mike Hitcher

00:18:42: Philipp Hartenfeller: did talk about it in Apex World in the

00:18:45: Philipp Hartenfeller: Netherlands this year, so maybe somebody or

00:18:48: Philipp Hartenfeller: them can show something, but Chris Rice is

00:18:51: Philipp Hartenfeller: not here, or Mike Hitcher, and I guess AI

00:18:54: Philipp Hartenfeller: is still a big topic.

00:18:56: Jon Dixon: Hopefully some some sessions that have like

00:18:58: Jon Dixon: real business use cases, not just like

00:19:01: Jon Dixon: technical how to do it I remember on the

00:19:04: Jon Dixon: the abstract committee last year, not this

00:19:07: Jon Dixon: year, the year before that we had a whole

00:19:09: Jon Dixon: bunch of abstracts that were obviously

00:19:11: Jon Dixon: written by ai and this this year it's

00:19:14: Jon Dixon: gotten a bit more sophisticated.

00:19:17: Jon Dixon: So you can see that evolution from novelty

00:19:19: Jon Dixon: to business use case.

00:19:22: Kai Donato: Yeah, this was a huge problem, right.

00:19:23: Kai Donato: So we have that for different conferences,

00:19:26: Kai Donato: so for German conferences like Apex Connect

00:19:29: Kai Donato: or for Dohag, that people are using ChatGPT

00:19:31: Kai Donato: to create the abstracts right.

00:19:34: Kai Donato: And you can see that.

00:19:36: Kai Donato: You might have seen that abstract is a

00:19:39: Kai Donato: little bit similar to other from chat gpt.

00:19:42: Kai Donato: But we all know that if you improve the

00:19:44: Kai Donato: prompt yep of the chat gpt thing then you

00:19:48: Kai Donato: might get another answer right.

00:19:49: Kai Donato: So it's not said that no one uses ai

00:19:53: Kai Donato: anymore to read the abstracts, because they

00:19:55: Kai Donato: know that it usually happens and they see

00:19:58: Kai Donato: it.

00:19:58: Kai Donato: I think they're just more sophisticated

00:20:00: Kai Donato: with their prompts to generate that it

00:20:03: Kai Donato: wasn't that obvious this year.

00:20:06: Moritz Klein: It wasn't at first, not obvious for me last

00:20:10: Moritz Klein: year, but I remember in the abstract comedy

00:20:14: Moritz Klein: sessions I talked about that I

00:20:17: Moritz Klein: subconsciously got really annoyed over time

00:20:22: Moritz Klein: by reading those abstracts.

00:20:24: Moritz Klein: And then somebody pointed out, yeah, they

00:20:26: Moritz Klein: were written with chat GPT.

00:20:27: Moritz Klein: And then I realized why I got so annoyed.

00:20:31: Jon Dixon: It was mostly one offender, but mostly one

00:20:32: Jon Dixon: offender.

00:20:32: Jon Dixon: Yeah yeah, it was mostly one offender but

00:20:35: Jon Dixon: mostly one offender.

00:20:37: Moritz Klein: Yeah, yeah, there was a certain cluster

00:20:40: Moritz Klein: afterwards that emerged.

00:20:41: Kai Donato: Yes, but we cannot do anything about it,

00:20:44: Kai Donato: right?

00:20:44: Kai Donato: So if you have a longer text, like white

00:20:46: Kai Donato: papers or like scientific papers, you might

00:20:54: Kai Donato: have enough text to ask another model or AI

00:20:55: Kai Donato: to detect similarities to different things

00:20:57: Kai Donato: and maybe have a guess if it's generated by

00:21:00: Kai Donato: AI.

00:21:01: Kai Donato: But if you have short abstracts, you will

00:21:03: Kai Donato: never know if they're generated by AI.

00:21:06: Jon Dixon: At least you can call the people who are

00:21:09: Jon Dixon: submitting this abstract and ask them for

00:21:12: Jon Dixon: more information, and if they're not into

00:21:14: Jon Dixon: it, you know that they just use the easier

00:21:17: Jon Dixon: way yeah, and ultimately, the you get found

00:21:20: Jon Dixon: out when you show up at the conference,

00:21:22: Jon Dixon: although it's unfortunate for the people

00:21:23: Jon Dixon: attending that there's one session that's

00:21:26: Jon Dixon: not as good as it could be because they

00:21:29: Jon Dixon: didn't genuinely have the knowledge to to

00:21:32: Jon Dixon: perform that abstract.

00:21:33: Jon Dixon: But if you do that, you you'll get found

00:21:36: Jon Dixon: out eventually.

00:21:38: Kai Donato: I mean, if you try to write a good abstract,

00:21:40: Kai Donato: right and you put much effort in it to

00:21:44: Kai Donato: create that abstract and you send it in,

00:21:46: Kai Donato: but you are still a first-time lecturer

00:21:51: Kai Donato: then, this is the same case.

00:21:52: Jon Dixon: That happens right, but I think people can

00:21:55: Jon Dixon: understand that, like the first time I

00:21:57: Jon Dixon: spoke, I was terrified and I'm sure it

00:21:58: Jon Dixon: wasn't as good as it could have been In

00:22:01: Jon Dixon: fact I know it wasn't.

00:22:02: Jon Dixon: But you can forgive people being nervous I

00:22:05: Jon Dixon: can anyway but I can't forgive people who

00:22:08: Jon Dixon: sort of fake their way in to getting into

00:22:10: Jon Dixon: the conference to start with.

00:22:12: Kai Donato: So you think it's obvious From the abstract.

00:22:16: Jon Dixon: I guess what I'm saying is you get found

00:22:18: Jon Dixon: out at the conference, which is too late

00:22:20: Jon Dixon: for the people who are attending.

00:22:22: Jon Dixon: Now you created an abstract with ChatGBT

00:22:25: Jon Dixon: and you don't really know what you're

00:22:26: Jon Dixon: talking about.

00:22:27: Jon Dixon: Now, 20 people watching you have wasted

00:22:30: Jon Dixon: part of their ticket.

00:22:33: Kai Donato: We have to find a way to avoid that.

00:22:36: Philipp Hartenfeller: There's a review system right After a talk.

00:22:38: Philipp Hartenfeller: You can review the session.

00:22:40: Jon Dixon: Yeah, I'm just saying it's a bit late then,

00:22:41: Jon Dixon: because the people have to sit through it.

00:22:43: Jon Dixon: But yeah, ultimately you'll get found out.

00:22:46: Kai Donato: So Kscope is one of those conferences who

00:22:49: Kai Donato: are still getting the feedback after each

00:22:52: Kai Donato: and every talk.

00:22:53: Jon Dixon: I think I read that they're not going to

00:22:54: Jon Dixon: have people on the door for this Kscope.

00:22:57: Jon Dixon: I forgot the name you use Ambassadors,

00:22:59: Jon Dixon: ambassadors.

00:23:00: Kai Donato: Yeah.

00:23:00: Jon Dixon: But I think there's still the app you can.

00:23:02: Kai Donato: Yeah, so I was attending almost every

00:23:07: Kai Donato: Kscope since 2016 and there was always the

00:23:12: Kai Donato: paper piece on your chair which was

00:23:16: Kai Donato: collected by the ambassador, who was always

00:23:19: Kai Donato: a volunteer.

00:23:20: Kai Donato: And yeah, you can get sort of like a reward

00:23:23: Kai Donato: when you're doing that.

00:23:25: Jon Dixon: Yeah, matt Mulvaney, who we're waiting for,

00:23:27: Jon Dixon: I think one last year or the year before

00:23:29: Jon Dixon: was the best speaker.

00:23:30: Kai Donato: Yeah, I mean for, also for the ambassador.

00:23:32: Kai Donato: Oh yeah, yeah, I mean also for the

00:23:34: Kai Donato: ambassador.

00:23:35: Moritz Klein: Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:23:35: Kai Donato: So if you're doing so much stuff as a

00:23:38: Kai Donato: volunteer on the conference like getting

00:23:40: Kai Donato: those feedback things in, then you can win

00:23:43: Kai Donato: a prize or something like that.

00:23:44: Kai Donato: But yeah, I remember that the ambassador

00:23:46: Kai Donato: walks around the room and get all the

00:23:48: Kai Donato: feedback snippets, put them in the envelope

00:23:51: Kai Donato: and bring them to the conference committee

00:23:54: Kai Donato: to have them sort it out and count it.

00:23:56: Philipp Hartenfeller: We have a QR code now on the last slide.

00:24:01: Moritz Klein: Yeah, but this has noticeably gone down the

00:24:05: Moritz Klein: amount of reviews yet to get, since it has

00:24:10: Moritz Klein: moved away from that paper thing.

00:24:13: Moritz Klein: Actually, someone being there animating you

00:24:17: Moritz Klein: to really put a review, apart from the

00:24:20: Moritz Klein: presenter.

00:24:21: Moritz Klein: I mean we typically do that because it's

00:24:23: Moritz Klein: super valuable input.

00:24:25: Moritz Klein: It's it's like it's better than a mirror

00:24:29: Moritz Klein: what you get there.

00:24:30: Moritz Klein: So we ask for honest feedback on that, so

00:24:34: Moritz Klein: this stuff can be improved.

00:24:35: Moritz Klein: Or if people yeah, if they can do it direct,

00:24:38: Moritz Klein: you can probably add some information that

00:24:41: Moritz Klein: you might've missed.

00:24:42: Moritz Klein: And that person, for that person, this

00:24:45: Moritz Klein: information is really valuable.

00:24:47: Moritz Klein: But it's gone less.

00:24:49: Kai Donato: I remember the time when I was like

00:24:53: Kai Donato: presenting one of the first English

00:24:55: Kai Donato: presentations, I guess, and I knew from

00:24:59: Kai Donato: Apex Connect.

00:24:59: Kai Donato: We try different ways to get the feedback

00:25:01: Kai Donato: back, like Bluetooth beacons from the

00:25:04: Kai Donato: ceiling of the room so every device gets

00:25:07: Kai Donato: directly locked in to the current room and

00:25:10: Kai Donato: then you can get the feedback for a current

00:25:12: Kai Donato: presentation.

00:25:13: Kai Donato: But there was never so much feedback what

00:25:16: Kai Donato: we would have liked to have.

00:25:19: Kai Donato: If this is, kind of sentence, yeah, makes

00:25:20: Kai Donato: sense and then we went to case go when I

00:25:24: Kai Donato: did my first like a couple of talks, and

00:25:26: Kai Donato: then a couple of weeks or months later we

00:25:29: Kai Donato: got an email with an extra sheet.

00:25:30: Kai Donato: In it we got so much feedback.

00:25:32: Kai Donato: Not only it was good, bad, whatever got

00:25:35: Kai Donato: like.

00:25:36: Kai Donato: What are the the categories?

00:25:37: Kai Donato: I think it was.

00:25:38: Kai Donato: Was it fluently?

00:25:40: Philipp Hartenfeller: just the lecture title doesn't match the

00:25:43: Philipp Hartenfeller: title expectations met.

00:25:45: Kai Donato: Something like that.

00:25:46: Kai Donato: Was the speaker effective yeah, the speaker

00:25:49: Kai Donato: was effective in presenting the stuff and I

00:25:52: Kai Donato: remember how happy I was each and every

00:25:55: Kai Donato: year when I got this mail, even if it was

00:25:57: Kai Donato: like just five people giving you feedback

00:26:00: Kai Donato: out of like 20 or 50.

00:26:01: Kai Donato: Um, it depends on how many people are

00:26:04: Kai Donato: attending your presentation.

00:26:05: Kai Donato: But if you have so many categories and some,

00:26:08: Kai Donato: some of them wrote something in the free

00:26:11: Kai Donato: text thing down there and it's very

00:26:14: Kai Donato: valuable.

00:26:14: Kai Donato: So you are happy.

00:26:15: Kai Donato: Looking back, you can improve.

00:26:17: Kai Donato: You know that the people took that time to

00:26:19: Kai Donato: give it to you and that's that's very great

00:26:22: Kai Donato: and I I hope we can get that to europe

00:26:25: Kai Donato: again and have a different approach, and I

00:26:27: Kai Donato: I guess it's it's not using an app.

00:26:29: Kai Donato: So we tried, we tried.

00:26:32: Kai Donato: I don't know if it's in America or

00:26:34: Kai Donato: something different than in Europe, or

00:26:35: Kai Donato: maybe time will tell and we have to make it

00:26:38: Kai Donato: even easier.

00:26:39: Kai Donato: But how easy could it be to have an app you

00:26:43: Kai Donato: open that it detects in which room you are,

00:26:46: Kai Donato: it opens automatically the presentation

00:26:48: Kai Donato: you're attending and then giving you the

00:26:50: Kai Donato: possibility to set stars and submit.

00:26:55: Jon Dixon: There's nothing beats having somebody

00:26:57: Jon Dixon: looking at you as you walk by them without

00:26:59: Jon Dixon: having handed in your feedback.

00:27:01: Jon Dixon: The guilt, the guilt feeling of not having

00:27:03: Jon Dixon: oh, or as a starter.

00:27:05: Moritz Klein: You have that piece of paper lying there.

00:27:07: Moritz Klein: You obviously have to pick it up to sit

00:27:09: Moritz Klein: down yeah and then you can't easily get rid

00:27:14: Moritz Klein: of it, your smartphone, you just put into

00:27:18: Moritz Klein: the pocket.

00:27:18: Moritz Klein: What?

00:27:19: Kai Donato: do you do with?

00:27:19: Moritz Klein: that piece of paper you say well, I have it

00:27:22: Moritz Klein: here, I can get rid of it.

00:27:24: Moritz Klein: I might as well use it right now.

00:27:26: Moritz Klein: You can always say I did it in the app

00:27:29: Moritz Klein: Everything's fine, that's the getaway card.

00:27:33: Moritz Klein: I used it a couple of times also.

00:27:36: Jon Dixon: I think it's on the people who are watching.

00:27:38: Jon Dixon: It's on them to do it, because they'll get

00:27:40: Jon Dixon: better results in the future the more

00:27:42: Jon Dixon: feedback they give.

00:27:42: Jon Dixon: Right, the conference gets the feedback.

00:27:45: Kai Donato: We get the feedback, like you say

00:27:47: Kai Donato: feedback's good, it is necessary that they

00:27:49: Kai Donato: want to improve everything right.

00:27:51: Kai Donato: So people are attending presentations, look

00:27:53: Kai Donato: at the presentation, say, all right, that

00:27:55: Kai Donato: was great I, I took something with me and

00:27:58: Kai Donato: it can try out.

00:27:59: Kai Donato: Or this was a great presentation or maybe

00:28:01: Kai Donato: not for me.

00:28:02: Kai Donato: I go to the next presentation.

00:28:04: Kai Donato: You need this, this intrinsic motivation to

00:28:08: Kai Donato: to have it improve right.

00:28:10: Kai Donato: So this is something mostly all the same,

00:28:13: Kai Donato: people are doing that so maybe people who

00:28:15: Kai Donato: are presenting by themselves, but maybe you

00:28:18: Kai Donato: need some.

00:28:18: Jon Dixon: Why did you look at Philip when you said?

00:28:20: Kai Donato: that Because he was raising his microphone.

00:28:23: Jon Dixon: Nobody ever goes to his.

00:28:25: Jon Dixon: Oh, you're poking again.

00:28:27: Kai Donato: What's going on with you guys?

00:28:29: Kai Donato: Why you decided to go to an Airbnb together,

00:28:31: Kai Donato: when you're always provoking each other.

00:28:33: Jon Dixon: You haven't heard about the beef.

00:28:35: Jon Dixon: No tell me Joking the beef.

00:28:39: Kai Donato: Nothing going on here.

00:28:41: Philipp Hartenfeller: I have another topic maybe around.

00:28:43: Kai Donato: K-Scope, go on, go on.

00:28:44: Philipp Hartenfeller: What like asking you guys who went to a lot

00:28:47: Philipp Hartenfeller: more K-Scopes?

00:28:49: Philipp Hartenfeller: I feel like the database track is kind of

00:28:51: Philipp Hartenfeller: thin and I always enjoyed, like the other

00:28:53: Philipp Hartenfeller: conferences, like Apex databases pretty

00:28:55: Philipp Hartenfeller: close that.

00:28:56: Philipp Hartenfeller: Yeah, it's important for an Apex developer

00:28:58: Philipp Hartenfeller: to also learn the database fundamentals.

00:29:00: Philipp Hartenfeller: But I feel like Kscope being such a big

00:29:02: Philipp Hartenfeller: conference, like the database talks are

00:29:05: Philipp Hartenfeller: kind of rarer than like Apex talks.

00:29:08: Philipp Hartenfeller: Was this always the case?

00:29:10: Jon Dixon: controversial opinion is is the database as

00:29:12: Jon Dixon: important to Apex developers now as it used

00:29:15: Jon Dixon: to be?

00:29:24: Jon Dixon: Absolutely, I think, if you're running on

00:29:25: Jon Dixon: autonomous, you care, as a apex developer,

00:29:26: Jon Dixon: I mean, I mean like database as a whole

00:29:28: Jon Dixon: topic like json duality oh yeah, for sure,

00:29:29: Jon Dixon: that's what you meant.

00:29:30: Jon Dixon: Like, not dba.

00:29:41: Moritz Klein: I mean DBA stuff to an extent I think is

00:29:43: Moritz Klein: very valuable.

00:29:43: Moritz Klein: So you have like you have kind of an idea

00:29:45: Moritz Klein: how to behave well within the database.

00:29:46: Moritz Klein: That that's always helpful and actually

00:29:49: Moritz Klein: gets you into less trouble with your real

00:29:52: Moritz Klein: DBAs, which is also very valuable because

00:29:54: Moritz Klein: they will have to save you at a certain

00:29:57: Moritz Klein: point in time and not being their enemy at

00:30:01: Moritz Klein: that point in time might save you.

00:30:04: Moritz Klein: But I agree like base database technology,

00:30:09: Moritz Klein: sort of like PL SQL, new features and

00:30:12: Moritz Klein: low-level new features or picking up

00:30:15: Moritz Klein: long-existing features.

00:30:17: Moritz Klein: And this comes back to Oracle Text.

00:30:19: Moritz Klein: I mean Oracle Text is, I don't know, 8i

00:30:23: Moritz Klein: version, 8-something.

00:30:24: Moritz Klein: This is really old technology already.

00:30:27: Moritz Klein: Another thing that we rediscovered is

00:30:29: Moritz Klein: advanced queuing, also there, since

00:30:33: Moritz Klein: probably 8-ish something yeah, it's really

00:30:38: Moritz Klein: really cool technology that has really good

00:30:41: Moritz Klein: use cases for used in integrations a lot.

00:30:44: Jon Dixon: Right, you've got people can pay a bunch of

00:30:46: Jon Dixon: money for oracle integration cloud for a

00:30:49: Jon Dixon: queue, or you can use queuing you've

00:30:50: Jon Dixon: already got in the database yeah, and

00:30:52: Jon Dixon: that's exactly the point.

00:30:53: Philipp Hartenfeller: Like I do a security talk, you do LOVs, so

00:30:56: Philipp Hartenfeller: we do basic Apex stuff, but like the older

00:30:59: Philipp Hartenfeller: database, topics.

00:31:00: Philipp Hartenfeller: I don't see them as much as I would hope.

00:31:03: Moritz Klein: I would say you just have to comment.

00:31:06: Moritz Klein: He said the older pointing to me database

00:31:10: Moritz Klein: topics I noticed I could read his mind.

00:31:14: Philipp Hartenfeller: Actually, because you do something, you do.

00:31:16: Philipp Hartenfeller: Oracle Text Talk.

00:31:19: Kai Donato: But I was already being with you when you

00:31:22: Kai Donato: said the older and you looked at Moritz and

00:31:24: Kai Donato: everything else beyond.

00:31:26: Kai Donato: That was fine.

00:31:27: Jon Dixon: Oracle Text is cool.

00:31:28: Jon Dixon: Again now, though, because I don't know if

00:31:31: Jon Dixon: you've seen the hybrid with the vector and

00:31:34: Jon Dixon: text together.

00:31:36: Jon Dixon: Oracle text together.

00:31:37: Jon Dixon: That's pretty cool.

00:31:38: Kai Donato: But I mean back to the question if it's in

00:31:42: Kai Donato: our opinion or in your opinion, is it

00:31:46: Kai Donato: really like that that the Kscope part,

00:31:48: Kai Donato: where DB stuff like features of the

00:31:50: Kai Donato: database itself, not necessarily with Apex

00:31:53: Kai Donato: combined, is getting less attention?

00:31:56: Kai Donato: Yeah, definitely, and what do you think is

00:32:00: Kai Donato: the reason for that?

00:32:07: Jon Dixon: Well, I think it's probably what I said

00:32:07: Jon Dixon: just now, where I'm not of the opinion that

00:32:08: Jon Dixon: you need to know the low-level database

00:32:09: Jon Dixon: stuff, but the features.

00:32:11: Jon Dixon: I kind of make a distinction between the

00:32:13: Jon Dixon: programming stuff like JSON duality and SQL

00:32:16: Jon Dixon: macros and stuff like that is more of a

00:32:18: Jon Dixon: programming thing and databases, rollback

00:32:22: Jon Dixon: segments and stuff like that.

00:32:25: Jon Dixon: So I was basically hypothesizing that you

00:32:27: Jon Dixon: don't need to know the rollback segments

00:32:29: Jon Dixon: and stuff as much as you used to know,

00:32:30: Jon Dixon: because a lot of it's getting taken care of

00:32:33: Jon Dixon: for you.

00:32:34: Jon Dixon: But the programming stuff is super

00:32:35: Jon Dixon: important and even we forget things and you

00:32:38: Jon Dixon: see a presentation on something you think,

00:32:41: Jon Dixon: oh, I haven't used that technology for ages.

00:32:43: Jon Dixon: I should start using that again.

00:32:45: Jon Dixon: So I don't know why the programming stuff

00:32:47: Jon Dixon: isn't featured as much, but it certainly

00:32:50: Jon Dixon: should be.

00:32:51: Philipp Hartenfeller: I think one part of it is also like Oracle

00:32:53: Philipp Hartenfeller: themselves not being present.

00:32:55: Philipp Hartenfeller: If you see how many people of the Apex team

00:32:57: Philipp Hartenfeller: are here, they really do value the

00:33:00: Philipp Hartenfeller: community and make sure that it's a big

00:33:02: Philipp Hartenfeller: topic, whereas, like from the top of my

00:33:04: Philipp Hartenfeller: head, I know that Connor is always doing a

00:33:06: Philipp Hartenfeller: lot of sessions on the database here, but

00:33:09: Philipp Hartenfeller: like I don't, nothing comes to my head of

00:33:11: Philipp Hartenfeller: another Oracle employee.

00:33:13: Moritz Klein: I remember years when, like the Sunday

00:33:17: Moritz Klein: symposium was actually a database symposium

00:33:22: Moritz Klein: and an Apex symposium and I used to switch

00:33:26: Moritz Klein: back and forth between both.

00:33:29: Moritz Klein: I think why the database track, when it

00:33:31: Moritz Klein: comes to programming features, things like

00:33:34: Moritz Klein: that, has gotten less is that the Apex

00:33:37: Moritz Klein: community and the Apex track has actually

00:33:40: Moritz Klein: picked up so much of that stuff and

00:33:43: Moritz Klein: immediately packaged it into an.

00:33:46: Moritz Klein: Apex scenario, which I mean.

00:33:50: Moritz Klein: I like the database, but it's just more

00:33:52: Moritz Klein: sexy if you have packaged it with Apex.

00:33:54: Moritz Klein: For most people.

00:33:56: Jon Dixon: You did one last year on duality views

00:33:58: Jon Dixon: didn't you.

00:33:58: Jon Dixon: So we do pick up a few, but it's.

00:34:02: Kai Donato: Exactly so I think there are two sides of

00:34:05: Kai Donato: the matter.

00:34:05: Kai Donato: Right, so you can say that the conference

00:34:08: Kai Donato: committee or the people who are involved

00:34:10: Kai Donato: with the conference itself could have kind

00:34:14: Kai Donato: of an influence how many database topics

00:34:17: Kai Donato: are covered.

00:34:18: Kai Donato: Right, could be, but the other side of the

00:34:20: Kai Donato: matter is that you need the people who are

00:34:23: Kai Donato: submitting talks to those topics, right?

00:34:26: Kai Donato: So you have Philip as a pure not pure but

00:34:30: Kai Donato: mostly Apex guy who picks out

00:34:33: Kai Donato: database-specific features and submitted

00:34:37: Kai Donato: talks or abstracts to Apex Connect, to

00:34:39: Kai Donato: Dohawk, to Kscope, and maybe this is

00:34:43: Kai Donato: something we have to pick up again.

00:34:46: Kai Donato: So if there's enough stuff or enough

00:34:48: Kai Donato: features, enough talks regarding database

00:34:51: Kai Donato: not mentioning Apex, then you get more

00:34:54: Kai Donato: slots for that and you get more slots for

00:34:55: Kai Donato: that.

00:34:55: Kai Donato: Maybe you get more focus on that and then

00:34:57: Kai Donato: you can bring it up again.

00:35:01: Jon Dixon: Because it supercharges Apex.

00:35:03: Jon Dixon: I mean the fact that it's on the database

00:35:05: Jon Dixon: is massive.

00:35:06: Jon Dixon: I remember Eric did one last year on SQL

00:35:08: Jon Dixon: macros and it changed my world.

00:35:12: Jon Dixon: Like having SQL macros is incredibly

00:35:15: Jon Dixon: powerful.

00:35:15: Philipp Hartenfeller: I mean you posted about it the other day

00:35:17: Philipp Hartenfeller: and they're so, so, really so great, like

00:35:20: Philipp Hartenfeller: if you're on 19c, you need to look them up

00:35:23: Philipp Hartenfeller: because, it makes so much stuff so easy,

00:35:26: Philipp Hartenfeller: more performant let's go 19c only has table

00:35:31: Philipp Hartenfeller: macros, 23 has table and scalar macros and,

00:35:36: Philipp Hartenfeller: just from personal experience, the

00:35:41: Philipp Hartenfeller: documentation is really bad.

00:35:44: Jon Dixon: You read the documentation.

00:35:46: Moritz Klein: Well, the thing is it just wasn't working.

00:35:48: Moritz Klein: It was barking at me for some error, a

00:35:50: Moritz Klein: syntax error which I looked up, which was

00:35:52: Moritz Klein: especially right.

00:35:54: Moritz Klein: So, 23, you say macro parenthesis table, or

00:35:59: Moritz Klein: scalar 9nc doesn't have, does only have

00:36:03: Moritz Klein: table.

00:36:04: Moritz Klein: So you don't put macro parenthesis table,

00:36:07: Moritz Klein: which you find if you Google.

00:36:09: Moritz Klein: Now you just say macro and good luck

00:36:12: Moritz Klein: finding that in the documentation.

00:36:14: Moritz Klein: That was really a headache, I mean, it took

00:36:17: Moritz Klein: me over half an hour to find that mistake.

00:36:19: Philipp Hartenfeller: Well, if you want to use a with clause in

00:36:22: Philipp Hartenfeller: the macro, it will error, but it will not

00:36:25: Philipp Hartenfeller: tell you that the with clause isn't issues,

00:36:27: Philipp Hartenfeller: but some generic syntax error.

00:36:29: Moritz Klein: They didn't know that one.

00:36:31: Moritz Klein: Just on the point with the database track

00:36:35: Moritz Klein: last year I deliberately wanted to put a

00:36:39: Moritz Klein: bit of stuff into the database track also,

00:36:41: Moritz Klein: like words, topics which are not Apex

00:36:44: Moritz Klein: related, which weren't database.

00:36:46: Moritz Klein: I think it didn't help switching to that

00:36:49: Moritz Klein: tag or label system.

00:36:51: Moritz Klein: And then having like a label which I would

00:36:54: Moritz Klein: have never associated with database tracks.

00:36:57: Moritz Klein: So I was actually asking in the Kscope

00:37:00: Moritz Klein: Slack group because I was part of the

00:37:02: Moritz Klein: review committee, so I had a short and easy

00:37:05: Moritz Klein: connection somewhere.

00:37:06: Moritz Klein: Can somebody tell me which tag is the right

00:37:08: Moritz Klein: one for core database technology?

00:37:12: Moritz Klein: And it wasn't obvious.

00:37:13: Moritz Klein: So that really wasn't obvious.

00:37:14: Moritz Klein: So that really didn't help.

00:37:16: Kai Donato: So this should be an easy way, right?

00:37:18: Kai Donato: So to get this barrier out of the way, to

00:37:22: Kai Donato: make it more clear for which category

00:37:23: Kai Donato: you're sending in, that should be

00:37:26: Kai Donato: sufficient, right.

00:37:26: Moritz Klein: I mean I've gave that feedback already

00:37:29: Moritz Klein: because it was the immediate feedback and I

00:37:31: Moritz Klein: wasn't the only one.

00:37:32: Moritz Klein: It was like hey, it's hard to fight with.

00:37:35: Moritz Klein: We understood you don't want to have that

00:37:37: Moritz Klein: specific tracks, you want to like tag stuff,

00:37:40: Moritz Klein: because then it's more communities can more

00:37:44: Moritz Klein: cross each other.

00:37:46: Moritz Klein: That's the idea.

00:37:47: Moritz Klein: I think it's a good idea.

00:37:50: Moritz Klein: But by giving me plain old core database

00:37:52: Moritz Klein: label, thank you off.

00:37:54: Kai Donato: But by giving me plain old core database

00:37:56: Kai Donato: label.

00:37:56: Kai Donato: Thank you off.

00:37:57: Kai Donato: Do you guys read already in the schedule of

00:37:58: Kai Donato: KSCO and maybe marked your presentations?

00:37:59: Kai Donato: You want to attend?

00:38:00: Kai Donato: I do, yeah, so what are your highlights?

00:38:02: Jon Dixon: Are you expecting me to remember what I did

00:38:05: Jon Dixon: Exactly?

00:38:06: Kai Donato: Not even one.

00:38:07: Jon Dixon: John, come on, I'm sure, mostly just

00:38:11: Jon Dixon: Philips and Moritz's other than that.

00:38:12: Jon Dixon: Come on, I'm really confused right now.

00:38:13: Jon Dixon: And Moritz is other than that.

00:38:13: Kai Donato: Come on.

00:38:14: Kai Donato: I'm really confused right now, but we'll

00:38:16: Kai Donato: try one thing, so just just you mute

00:38:20: Kai Donato: Phillip and me we'll go outside.

00:38:22: Moritz Klein: and then you ask him again.

00:38:25: Kai Donato: I'm very confused because either way.

00:38:27: Kai Donato: So you're poking each other or you're just

00:38:30: Kai Donato: I don't know the right pronunciation in

00:38:32: Kai Donato: English to say that.

00:38:34: Jon Dixon: Just part of being British, really.

00:38:36: Kai Donato: Being a little bit too often.

00:38:38: Kai Donato: All right, what are your highlights?

00:38:40: Kai Donato: Moritz, did you already have a look into

00:38:42: Kai Donato: the presentation?

00:38:42: Kai Donato: I see you grinning.

00:38:44: Kai Donato: For me it's just like… Whenever you got

00:38:47: Kai Donato: time, you go and check the presentation

00:38:48: Kai Donato: Whenever.

00:38:49: Moritz Klein: I have time.

00:38:50: Moritz Klein: I'm not just like talking to somebody,

00:38:53: Moritz Klein: because that's my main point.

00:38:55: Moritz Klein: At conferences you meet people and then you

00:39:00: Moritz Klein: start with the topic and it just takes an

00:39:03: Moritz Klein: hour because it's so interesting and it's

00:39:05: Moritz Klein: just fit.

00:39:06: Moritz Klein: So when I see okay, next slot, that would

00:39:09: Moritz Klein: work, I just skip through what's available,

00:39:14: Moritz Klein: pick one.

00:39:15: Moritz Klein: I think that's that's one of I would like

00:39:18: Moritz Klein: conferences to do is make looking at the

00:39:22: Moritz Klein: current slot as convenient as possible.

00:39:26: Moritz Klein: I was one of those guys at the work annual

00:39:30: Moritz Klein: conference as long as as as they had it, I

00:39:34: Moritz Klein: took the printout schedule.

00:39:37: Moritz Klein: Yes, it got outdated if there were changes,

00:39:39: Moritz Klein: but it was so easy.

00:39:41: Moritz Klein: Just like have a pen, have that printout,

00:39:45: Moritz Klein: just put a mark on something specific as

00:39:49: Moritz Klein: you as you walk around.

00:39:51: Moritz Klein: Thank, then you're done.

00:39:52: Moritz Klein: I think analog on that part is still better

00:39:55: Moritz Klein: than digital world.

00:39:57: Jon Dixon: Yeah, I sort of like you said.

00:39:59: Jon Dixon: I plan it out ahead of time, but it doesn't

00:40:02: Jon Dixon: often survive.

00:40:03: Jon Dixon: It's like any good project plan what do

00:40:05: Jon Dixon: they say?

00:40:05: Jon Dixon: It doesn't.

00:40:07: Jon Dixon: Or battle plan it only lasts as long as

00:40:09: Jon Dixon: until the battle begins.

00:40:11: Jon Dixon: You can plan it as much as you like, but

00:40:12: Jon Dixon: when you get there and you start talking to

00:40:14: Jon Dixon: people, so this is your excuse for not

00:40:17: Jon Dixon: remembering what sessions you want to

00:40:20: Jon Dixon: attend.

00:40:20: Jon Dixon: It's one of the many excuses that yeah,

00:40:23: Jon Dixon: great.

00:40:23: Kai Donato: So we got an update from matt live from the

00:40:27: Kai Donato: studio, like he should be out like 20

00:40:29: Kai Donato: minutes.

00:40:30: Kai Donato: Six minutes left and now six.

00:40:31: Kai Donato: And then we are surprising him with an

00:40:33: Kai Donato: handset microphone and sitting next to us

00:40:36: Kai Donato: and asking all the questions we already

00:40:38: Kai Donato: answered here in this room.

00:40:40: Kai Donato: Right, alright?

00:40:41: Kai Donato: Philipp highlights.

00:40:43: Kai Donato: What are your highlights?

00:40:44: Kai Donato: What will you attend?

00:40:46: Philipp Hartenfeller: I can definitely recommend Louis' session

00:40:48: Philipp Hartenfeller: about web fundamentals or so in the.

00:40:50: Philipp Hartenfeller: Netherlands.

00:40:51: Philipp Hartenfeller: It's great I saw Matt.

00:40:54: Philipp Hartenfeller: He's not here, but really that's one of the

00:40:57: Philipp Hartenfeller: few I marked.

00:40:58: Philipp Hartenfeller: I can look it up.

00:40:59: Philipp Hartenfeller: It's something like global the name was

00:41:01: Philipp Hartenfeller: really huge Building global scale

00:41:05: Philipp Hartenfeller: applications with Oracle, Apex and

00:41:06: Philipp Hartenfeller: Autonomous Database Patterns, layouts and

00:41:08: Philipp Hartenfeller: considerations and, knowing Matt, it will

00:41:11: Philipp Hartenfeller: be a lot of content packed in it.

00:41:16: Moritz Klein: I don't remember, did, did we, did we get

00:41:18: Moritz Klein: him in for the honest review thing again?

00:41:21: Philipp Hartenfeller: Yeah, I think so.

00:41:22: Moritz Klein: Yeah.

00:41:23: Philipp Hartenfeller: Okay, these are also great.

00:41:24: Jon Dixon: That's worth attending.

00:41:25: Jon Dixon: I always say they should.

00:41:27: Jon Dixon: They had that guy a few years ago who did

00:41:29: Jon Dixon: the, the standup before the open mic night,

00:41:32: Jon Dixon: and the Wolververine guy.

00:41:33: Jon Dixon: I don't know if you remember I always say

00:41:35: Jon Dixon: the badgerines right?

00:41:36: Jon Dixon: Yeah, I always say they should have matt on

00:41:39: Jon Dixon: doing.

00:41:39: Jon Dixon: Doing a 15 minute skit on open mic night.

00:41:42: Philipp Hartenfeller: It'd be hilarious and I want to see some

00:41:46: Philipp Hartenfeller: 23ai talks that show, like some, either

00:41:49: Philipp Hartenfeller: some specific features I haven't really

00:41:52: Philipp Hartenfeller: heard about, or like some general, because

00:41:54: Philipp Hartenfeller: I think 23.ai is so big you will never be

00:41:58: Philipp Hartenfeller: able to get everything in your head.

00:42:00: Jon Dixon: It's really awesome One I just did remember

00:42:04: Jon Dixon: that's on my schedule is Halley's doing one

00:42:06: Jon Dixon: on chunking strategies.

00:42:09: Jon Dixon: It's something I've been getting into in

00:42:10: Jon Dixon: the last year and I want to hear it from

00:42:12: Jon Dixon: somebody who really knows some good

00:42:15: Jon Dixon: approaches there that's a good approach

00:42:17: Jon Dixon: just to learn it by yourself and then ask

00:42:19: Jon Dixon: someone who knows it right.

00:42:21: Kai Donato: Yeah, besides being in the podcast booth,

00:42:24: Kai Donato: I'm looking forward to lightning sessions

00:42:25: Kai Donato: too, because I think those lightning

00:42:28: Kai Donato: sessions the this, the small things for for

00:42:31: Kai Donato: the listeners who doesn't know what

00:42:33: Kai Donato: lightning talks are.

00:42:34: Kai Donato: So there's a separate room, like 45 minutes

00:42:38: Kai Donato: or one and a half hours.

00:42:39: Kai Donato: I don't know how much time we got this time.

00:42:41: Jon Dixon: Just over an hour, I think.

00:42:43: Kai Donato: And we got tiny time slots like four or

00:42:47: Kai Donato: five minutes.

00:42:48: Moritz Klein: Don't?

00:42:49: Moritz Klein: We got 10 minutes?

00:42:50: Moritz Klein: It depends on how many sessions.

00:42:52: Kai Donato: We have right.

00:42:53: Kai Donato: So I remember the time when Scott

00:42:55: Kai Donato: Spindolini was collecting the but that

00:43:00: Kai Donato: would be Open Mic Night.

00:43:02: Moritz Klein: Open Mic Night is a five minute, I think,

00:43:05: Moritz Klein: and Lightning Talks.

00:43:07: Moritz Klein: These are pre-planned for Thursday.

00:43:08: Kai Donato: Oh, pre-planned All right okay.

00:43:10: Jon Dixon: With 10 minute slots If you're talking

00:43:13: Jon Dixon: about Open Mic Night.

00:43:14: Jon Dixon: That's one of my favorite parts of Kscope.

00:43:17: Jon Dixon: Is Open Mic Night Open?

00:43:18: Moritz Klein: Mic Night is always so fascinating what

00:43:20: Moritz Klein: people do with.

00:43:21: Moritz Klein: Apex, it just broadens.

00:43:24: Moritz Klein: All these are use cases.

00:43:26: Moritz Klein: I mean, we say, you can pretty much do

00:43:28: Moritz Klein: anything with Apex, but then you see

00:43:30: Moritz Klein: somebody doing that, already done that.

00:43:35: Kai Donato: It's really cool.

00:43:35: Kai Donato: Okay, I'm looking forward for the lightning

00:43:37: Kai Donato: talks because they're cool, short and you

00:43:41: Kai Donato: can expect nice prepared things.

00:43:43: Kai Donato: And then I'm looking forward to the open

00:43:45: Kai Donato: mic night even more, because they're not

00:43:48: Kai Donato: that good prepared, because you don't know

00:43:49: Kai Donato: how much time you got right, and sometimes

00:43:52: Kai Donato: there are people in the audience that were

00:43:54: Kai Donato: not planning to show something, but they

00:43:56: Kai Donato: got involved by being motivated by someone

00:44:00: Kai Donato: who's sitting next to them and said come on

00:44:03: Kai Donato: let's do it.

00:44:03: Kai Donato: Just stand up, go in front of the crowd and

00:44:06: Kai Donato: you're just trying, right.

00:44:08: Kai Donato: And then, even if it's not working, the

00:44:10: Kai Donato: people are applauding and they're happy to

00:44:14: Kai Donato: have you there, and this is such a

00:44:16: Kai Donato: motivating thing.

00:44:18: Jon Dixon: It's a really testament to the Apex

00:44:21: Jon Dixon: community.

00:44:21: Jon Dixon: I think Open Mic.

00:44:22: Jon Dixon: Night that people support.

00:44:27: Moritz Klein: That's really a standout thing in the

00:44:28: Moritz Klein: community.

00:44:29: Kai Donato: I remember from Dwork a couple of years ago,

00:44:32: Kai Donato: password reset and stuff Exactly.

00:44:36: Kai Donato: There was someone in front of the audience

00:44:37: Kai Donato: and wanted to show something in Apex or a

00:44:39: Kai Donato: Kokomo, I guess, and locked himself out of

00:44:42: Kai Donato: the database because he was too nervous to

00:44:45: Kai Donato: put in the password correctly.

00:44:47: Kai Donato: And then I think Joel was in the audience

00:44:50: Kai Donato: and Joe Cameron was in the audience and

00:44:52: Kai Donato: stepped and said okay, let me read that in

00:44:55: Kai Donato: the admin area.

00:44:58: Kai Donato: Just reset his account so he can go on with

00:45:00: Kai Donato: his Open Mic Night talk, one of my favorite.

00:45:03: Moritz Klein: Joel stories Just standing up.

00:45:07: Moritz Klein: Give me a second, I can help you.

00:45:09: Moritz Klein: That's a classic, Joel.

00:45:11: Kai Donato: And that's basically how you already said,

00:45:14: Kai Donato: that the Apex community is great in itself

00:45:16: Kai Donato: and in combination with the Apex team it's

00:45:18: Kai Donato: pure gold.

00:45:19: Kai Donato: So you have the feedback channel back and

00:45:21: Kai Donato: forth.

00:45:22: Kai Donato: You have direct contact to the developers

00:45:24: Kai Donato: and they know that they have a great

00:45:25: Kai Donato: community that are contributing so much

00:45:27: Kai Donato: that they have own conferences like Apex

00:45:30: Kai Donato: Connect, who are basically just for Apex, I

00:45:33: Kai Donato: mean together with the DB infrastructure

00:45:35: Kai Donato: conferences here and you have sometimes

00:45:38: Kai Donato: JavaScript and database stuff, but it's, I

00:45:40: Kai Donato: mean it's called Apex Connect, right?

00:45:42: Kai Donato: It's about Apex and it's to connect people

00:45:44: Kai Donato: right.

00:45:44: Kai Donato: It's basically exactly that, and you have

00:45:47: Kai Donato: this great community that is contributing

00:45:49: Kai Donato: so much stuff in it, and I see it at Kscope

00:45:51: Kai Donato: too.

00:45:51: Kai Donato: But to just recap the part of the database

00:45:56: Kai Donato: stream or part at the Kscope, I guess we

00:45:59: Kai Donato: just need to motivate people to submit more

00:46:02: Kai Donato: database talks that are not directly

00:46:05: Kai Donato: combined with Apex, and then we have to

00:46:07: Kai Donato: work together with the committee to find a

00:46:10: Kai Donato: proper way to separate those talks that

00:46:12: Kai Donato: they can identify by the committee, to see

00:46:15: Kai Donato: how many talks are focused just for

00:46:18: Kai Donato: database and then see how the conference

00:46:22: Kai Donato: can be set up more with a separate track.

00:46:25: Jon Dixon: Or even just PLSQL.

00:46:26: Jon Dixon: When's the last time you saw a PLSQL?

00:46:28: Kai Donato: I was including that to the database thing.

00:46:30: Kai Donato: No, I know, but I'm just generally.

00:46:32: Moritz Klein: I can't remember ever seeing a pls equal

00:46:35: Moritz Klein: session, just pure pls equal I think we

00:46:38: Moritz Klein: should like reduce that notion of

00:46:40: Moritz Klein: everything needs to be fancy to be relevant,

00:46:44: Moritz Klein: because that's sort of like it's boring.

00:46:48: Moritz Klein: Base level stuff is, I think, what a lot of

00:46:51: Moritz Klein: people have in their mind and they don't

00:46:54: Moritz Klein: think they will have a chance to be at a

00:46:57: Moritz Klein: conference with that, which I think is a

00:47:00: Moritz Klein: really wrong impression to give.

00:47:03: Jon Dixon: Because it's most.

00:47:04: Moritz Klein: The base level stuff is.

00:47:06: Kai Donato: Most of what you do.

00:47:06: Jon Dixon: Your basis Right this is 80% of my work is

00:47:10: Jon Dixon: basic, yeah.

00:47:11: Moritz Klein: It's your foundation.

00:47:11: Moritz Klein: If your foundation and house is bad, you

00:47:13: Moritz Klein: can just don't even bother putting windows

00:47:17: Moritz Klein: in.

00:47:17: Moritz Klein: It will not help.

00:47:19: Philipp Hartenfeller: We should motivate the listeners.

00:47:21: Philipp Hartenfeller: Maybe you, dear listener, valued listener,

00:47:25: Philipp Hartenfeller: are now motivated to submit a talk to any

00:47:27: Philipp Hartenfeller: conference.

00:47:28: Kai Donato: To KSCO, right.

00:47:31: Kai Donato: I don't remember that we have such a big

00:47:32: Kai Donato: problem with a separated database and apex

00:47:35: Kai Donato: talks like this, this clearly seeable, like

00:47:39: Kai Donato: it's at case go, because oh my god, matt is

00:47:42: Kai Donato: coming.

00:47:42: Philipp Hartenfeller: I'm opening that.

00:47:43: Jon Dixon: Great that's quite the chime.

00:47:47: Jon Dixon: Yeah, it is and it's never stopping right.

00:47:49: Kai Donato: Is it from sherlock holmes?

00:47:51: Kai Donato: Yes, so you should stay dead here on the

00:47:53: Kai Donato: couch.

00:47:53: Kai Donato: You get the one microphone you can.

00:47:58: Kai Donato: We were already preparing the audience for

00:48:00: Kai Donato: you joining for the audience.

00:48:07: Kai Donato: We are giving Matt some drink of life and

00:48:12: Kai Donato: we can finally welcome Matt to this round.

00:48:14: Kai Donato: We had a couple of beers and we can finally

00:48:15: Kai Donato: welcome Matt to this round.

00:48:17: Kai Donato: We had a couple of beers and we were

00:48:18: Kai Donato: talking about.

00:48:18: Kai Donato: K-Scope before you're falling asleep.

00:48:24: Kai Donato: So let's rush the questions.

00:48:25: Kai Donato: What are you expecting from K-Scope Matt,

00:48:27: Kai Donato: Besides sleep and getting rid of the jet

00:48:29: Kai Donato: lag?

00:48:31: Kai Donato: No, that's it.

00:48:33: Matt Mulvaney: Brain's only half functioning.

00:48:35: Kai Donato: No.

00:48:35: Matt Mulvaney: KSCO will be great.

00:48:37: Matt Mulvaney: Yeah, busy, lots of people, lots of

00:48:39: Matt Mulvaney: interesting talks.

00:48:41: Matt Mulvaney: We'll answer new things.

00:48:43: Matt Mulvaney: Maybe the Apex team will reveal some

00:48:45: Matt Mulvaney: secrets of the new release, or the new

00:48:46: Matt Mulvaney: release itself.

00:48:47: Kai Donato: So you're expecting the Apex team to give

00:48:50: Kai Donato: some insights on new releases.

00:48:52: Matt Mulvaney: Yeah, I'm hoping so.

00:48:52: Matt Mulvaney: I'm hoping on Sunday actually Alright.

00:48:53: Matt Mulvaney: So we, the Apex team, to give some insights

00:48:54: Matt Mulvaney: on new releases or upcoming features.

00:48:54: Matt Mulvaney: I'm hoping on Sunday actually Alright so we

00:48:56: Matt Mulvaney: have our bets open.

00:48:57: Matt Mulvaney: There's a symposium on Sunday, so there's

00:49:00: Matt Mulvaney: the opportunity to announce some new

00:49:03: Matt Mulvaney: features.

00:49:04: Jon Dixon: What would be your guess, if anything,

00:49:06: Jon Dixon: anything you think?

00:49:07: Matt Mulvaney: More workflow, some more AI, some bonus,

00:49:11: Matt Mulvaney: unexpected features.

00:49:13: Jon Dixon: That's a fair guess.

00:49:15: Kai Donato: Doesn't sound so excited, but yeah, more AI.

00:49:18: Jon Dixon: Ask him again when he's had some sleep.

00:49:19: Matt Mulvaney: Yeah, tomorrow I'll sound completely

00:49:22: Matt Mulvaney: different.

00:49:24: Kai Donato: Yeah, just a small look into the future.

00:49:26: Kai Donato: So, Matt, I will definitely get you in

00:49:29: Kai Donato: front of the microphone in the next days so

00:49:32: Kai Donato: you can talk in depth about that Real quick.

00:49:34: Kai Donato: What is your contribution to the conference?

00:49:36: Kai Donato: What are your talks about?

00:49:38: Matt Mulvaney: Okay, so I've got three presentations.

00:49:41: Matt Mulvaney: So one's about globalization, so it's a

00:49:44: Matt Mulvaney: learning journey from not really

00:49:47: Matt Mulvaney: understanding it to going like full-on

00:49:50: Matt Mulvaney: investigation and have, yeah, a full

00:49:53: Matt Mulvaney: investigation and a learning journey of

00:49:55: Matt Mulvaney: myself.

00:49:56: Matt Mulvaney: Another one will be on global scale Apex

00:50:00: Matt Mulvaney: apps.

00:50:00: Matt Mulvaney: So going large with Apex apps for across

00:50:04: Matt Mulvaney: the world lots of heavy traffic, what

00:50:07: Matt Mulvaney: infrastructure you need, what, yeah, what

00:50:10: Matt Mulvaney: equipment, what considerations you need to

00:50:11: Matt Mulvaney: think about that kind of thing.

00:50:14: Matt Mulvaney: The third one is my usual new features of

00:50:17: Matt Mulvaney: Apex, so it's 24-2.

00:50:19: Philipp Hartenfeller: An honest review.

00:50:21: Matt Mulvaney: An honest review.

00:50:21: Matt Mulvaney: Yeah, I'll be talking for an hour on that

00:50:24: Matt Mulvaney: and then I hope to be on the open mic for

00:50:27: Matt Mulvaney: five minutes.

00:50:28: Matt Mulvaney: I've got something prepared and then I've

00:50:31: Matt Mulvaney: got lightning talk on the last day for 10

00:50:35: Matt Mulvaney: minutes and that will be on the evolution

00:50:38: Matt Mulvaney: of html from sequel sequel generation of

00:50:42: Matt Mulvaney: html, and that's for 10 minutes.

00:50:44: Kai Donato: So all in all, five presentations wow,

00:50:47: Kai Donato: quite, quite busy week for each and

00:50:49: Kai Donato: everyone in this apex house here.

00:50:52: Kai Donato: So just to release you guys into another

00:50:54: Kai Donato: beer and stopping the recording.

00:50:56: Kai Donato: Thank you very much for attending this

00:50:58: Kai Donato: maybe uncut released podcast episode of

00:51:00: Kai Donato: Devs on Tap this time.

00:51:02: Kai Donato: There will be serious episodes of Devs on

00:51:04: Kai Donato: Tap coming in the next days for you, dear

00:51:07: Kai Donato: listeners, in the next weeks.

00:51:09: Kai Donato: Uh, thank you very much for joining.

00:51:10: Kai Donato: We will see how the next days will run and

00:51:13: Kai Donato: I hope we are having a great conference.

00:51:15: Kai Donato: Cheers to that, cheers, cheers.

00:51:36: Kai Donato: This episode is powered by Hyatt, your

00:51:38: Kai Donato: smart companion for digital business

00:51:40: Kai Donato: solutions, and Biodetec's gracious

00:51:42: Kai Donato: invitations and support.

00:51:44: Kai Donato: Thank you for having me at the conference

00:51:45: Kai Donato: and fueling this journey.